#48 - Why avoiding risk is the biggest threat to your pharma career

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Speaking about pharma talents,

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what I've seen is that in most of the cases,

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regardless of the function,

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regardless of the role,

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people are purpose-driven in the industry.

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The first thing that you think about when you wake up in the morning is how I make sure that the employees are safe wherever they are in the region.

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And second,

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how we deliver on the mission of the company in a responsible,

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compliant manner.

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These markets are...

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Hyper volatile,

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for sure.

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But the underlying trajectory is growth.

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Basically,

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the biggest risk is not to achieve your purpose.

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I think there is more risk in not trying anything than trying something.

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Welcome to PharmaMinds in a world where...

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Risks define the progress and also maybe not taking risks defines also sometimes,

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yes,

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the enemy of progress and sometimes comfort also defines the enemy of progress.

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I'm really happy of today's guest.

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I am with

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Marc Gailhardou.

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Hello,

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Marc.

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Hi,

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Nathalie.

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Thanks for having me.

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I'm very happy to have you here because I think your leadership career and the

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paths you've done into the pharma industry will help us to understand this move between the local and global and maybe understand a bit what's moving and how we can look

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at this changing world.

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I'm really happy to have you here.

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Looking forward to the conversation and thanks for the nice framing.

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Marc,

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you're responsible of the

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EEMEA zone for MSD today.

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And you're also part of the board of a startup named Resilience.

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Exactly.

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In oncology.

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You talk about,

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yes,

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local,

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global leadership,

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but also maybe finding a way to define new leaders in this world.

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I would like to start with you,

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Johnny.

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How you started,

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maybe you can try to...

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Explain how this alternating between local and global roles helps your leadership.

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Thank you very much,

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Nathalie.

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And before starting,

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going into the weeds of my career,

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maybe just a few words to say that

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I think I'm pretty representative from your audience,

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meaning people driven to make an impact in making innovation accessible.

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So I think,

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and around that,

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I feel that pharma is clearly a good way,

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a career in pharma is really a good way to get there.

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And like I said,

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just one word will speak a lot about me,

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but my first consideration is that in everything we'll be saying,

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this is a team sport.

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This is a team sport.

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And so I take the opportunity to really thank.

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my colleagues,

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the team I've been working with,

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and all the ones who have been supporting my family,

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the close ones,

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the mentors.

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So I think this is important to say.

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So with regards to my to my career,

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maybe just one or two words about the region itself.

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So

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EMEA, so Eastern Europe,

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Middle East,

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Africa,

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this is something like 25%

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of the world population.

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This is

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Hyper diverse as a region because we have some of the poorest countries in the world to some of the wealthiest country in the world if we take the Gulf.

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This is a region very heterogeneous.

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This is a region that is volatile,

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that has some challenges when we think about all the wars that are going throughout the region.

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and

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Again,

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I would like to say a word for all the people who are going through that,

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because that's real challenges.

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But if we take the flip side of that,

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that's really a region that is fascinating,

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because this is a region that has a soul,

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I would say.

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If you consider all the greatest civilizations that have built this region,

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that has some amazing values in terms of generosity,

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hospitality.

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And there is a word that I'm not so fond of.

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We often speak about emerging markets.

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I would very much consider the region as a high growth market.

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Okay.

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And if we take it like that,

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I think then that creates some connection with the discussion we'll have about the ability to be.

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pretty bold from a strategic standpoint to be very focused on the execution.

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So there is a lot to do from addressing the needs.

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If we start to the purpose,

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there are a lot of needs,

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but also from a business standpoint.

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So yeah,

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this is about my current job.

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And I think I'm excited every day on it.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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And okay,

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then I jump.

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I made the connection between your your president job,

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you were in the US.

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You were in...

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Okay.

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Couldn't be more different.

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So yes,

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my previous job was to be in global oncology at headquarters in New Jersey.

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And then you give me the opportunity to address your question about global,

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local,

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local,

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global.

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There is a clear pattern in my career,

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which is that

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I kind of continuously made some switch from

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local responsibilities,

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global responsibilities,

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trying to build some breadth of experience here and there and some depth.

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So

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I started with

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GSK in France,

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actually,

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in the fundamental of pharma,

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account management,

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marketing.

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So that was for the local aspect,

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sales management.

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And then

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I went to Sanofi.

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which was my first global experience after an MBA,

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where I worked in vaccines.

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So speaking about depth,

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so that's the first kind of vertical where

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I did a deep dive.

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Then after that,

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I had my first P&L responsibilities in charge of the European mid-sized countries for vaccines.

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I pivoted to

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MSD, where I took my first general management role,

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managing director for Sweden.

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So that was kind of from global.

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to local,

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and then five years in the global in the oncology.

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So yeah,

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that's really the kind of the pattern.

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And to bridge to what you were just kind of saying,

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couldn't be more extreme.

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The contrast between these five years at global in oncology,

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and if you're a bit familiar with the journey,

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but this idea was that we had the opportunity,

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thanks to the resource and development work too.

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kind of a crack in immuno-oncology and to unfold what it could become.

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So I think that has been really kind of a journey of what it is to build a leader in oncology at the center of an organization.

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Whereas now I'm at the closest of local in marketing most of the cases that are much less mature than what I could have seen in the US.

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Okay,

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then when you've built in,

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okay,

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at a global stage like...

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A leader in oncology bringing a lot of innovation.

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You've also maybe watched,

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seen the growth and seen the dynamics of the countries.

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And how did you look at this from a global point of view?

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How did you look at the world?

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Wow.

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I think that from a pharmaceutical standpoint,

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the considerations are what is the time to access?

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So where can the innovation be accessible the fastest?

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So that's the first one.

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So clearly,

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then there is a first view at the US,

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Europe.

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And then after that,

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the questions are,

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what are the alternative means to make our innovation accessible throughout the world?

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So if your question is,

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do I look at it differently from five years ago?

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to now,

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obviously.

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But

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I think that's why the kind of the complementarity of experience makes a ton of sense.

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I think,

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yeah.

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Yes,

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yes.

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And you have a job where you actually maybe more plan and try to find maybe,

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yes,

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to build the future of the company.

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And when you work local,

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you are into the real.

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Absolutely.

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Then you act through.

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for today and you act for the near future.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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So I think you are touching what is the difference between local and global,

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why it makes sense to consider the two of these type of things.

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And you've said it.

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I think with regards to local,

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what I enjoy the most is probably two things.

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The connection,

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the connection to the customers up to the patient.

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I think there is no substitute to that.

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I think it's only being in a country that we will be basically facing this type of situation.

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The connection with the team.

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And that was my very first word.

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But when we speak about a leadership journey,

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it's all about that.

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It's all about creating this connection so that team can follow at some point.

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If it doesn't exist,

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nothing can happen.

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So this type of connection,

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it can only be at the local level that we learn this.

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The second aspect for local for me is.

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around accountability and direct accountability.

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There is something I've learned,

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I was said,

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and now I say to the managing directors,

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is in a market,

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if we deliver on the objectives,

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be it sales or others,

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then we can make a ton of storytelling and everyone will find it fascinating.

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If the objectives are not there,

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suddenly no one listens anymore.

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So I think this...

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This direct accountability of the day to day is something hyper important to develop.

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And I think it can only be achieved at the local level.

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And some people only love that.

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So that's why I think

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I'm touching another point,

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which is should everyone do local global?

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I'm not sure,

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because I think it should really connect to who you are,

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what you want to do.

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OK.

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And but in my case,

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so I like this.

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And at the same time,

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I've always been looking for something different and global.

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And what I would be looking for in global roles is on one side,

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the depth.

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And on the other hand,

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like you said,

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this ability to be or this opportunity to be.

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a drop in the projects that will shape the future of public health or the industry.

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So

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I think when I speak about depth,

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I had the opportunity to touch two areas.

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And I think that gives some good illustrations of what it can be.

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I touched vaccines and oncology.

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I think if you're interested in vaccine,

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you're better interested in manufacturing processes and biology and these kind of things.

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Because even being a marketer,

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That brings you into the weeds of the size of the reactor,

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the fermentation process,

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the purification and this kind of thing.

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So I think that's really an opportunity to touch something that you will never have in an affiliate where it's about basically medical,

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sales,

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marketing,

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market access,

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these type of things.

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00:13:04.085 --> 00:13:04.663
On the other hand,

274
00:13:04.881 --> 00:13:06.272
when I went into oncology,

275
00:13:07.116 --> 00:13:08.585
it's all about science.

276
00:13:09.085 --> 00:13:09.397
And

277
00:13:10.178 --> 00:13:12.085
I think it takes some appetite,

278
00:13:12.506 --> 00:13:12.881
energy.

279
00:13:13.515 --> 00:13:18.760
to go into the weeds of science and to become relevant into science.

280
00:13:18.780 --> 00:13:20.944
So that's the type of driver.

281
00:13:21.725 --> 00:13:27.085
And to the second point I was making around touching the big topics,

282
00:13:27.850 --> 00:13:29.991
I've already mentioned one with this idea of,

283
00:13:30.053 --> 00:13:30.288
okay,

284
00:13:31.631 --> 00:13:34.069
being part of the journey of building a leader in oncology.

285
00:13:37.319 --> 00:13:38.788
If I go to a past life,

286
00:13:38.897 --> 00:13:40.678
I remember the time where it was about

287
00:13:41.171 --> 00:13:45.035
capacity building for polio eradication and how much vaccines we would need for that.

288
00:13:46.236 --> 00:13:47.697
I think just being part of that,

289
00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:49.677
it's once in life experiences.

290
00:13:50.263 --> 00:13:50.380
So

291
00:13:51.162 --> 00:13:52.404
I think it's very rewarding.

292
00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:54.904
But usually what you get,

293
00:13:55.005 --> 00:13:55.568
like I said,

294
00:13:55.826 --> 00:13:58.841
is that you're only a drop in the ocean.

295
00:13:59.435 --> 00:14:00.966
So this is why after for me,

296
00:14:01.013 --> 00:14:01.638
after a few years,

297
00:14:01.904 --> 00:14:02.560
I feel this need,

298
00:14:02.591 --> 00:14:02.716
OK,

299
00:14:04.029 --> 00:14:09.341
let me go back to my shop where I could maximize my kind of own team impact and this kind of thing.

300
00:14:09.372 --> 00:14:09.497
So.

301
00:14:10.427 --> 00:14:11.068
That's the way it is.

302
00:14:11.569 --> 00:14:14.051
That's the way I'm kind of driven in a way.

303
00:14:14.792 --> 00:14:14.932
Yes,

304
00:14:14.952 --> 00:14:21.135
I would like to talk a bit more about how is it to work in high growth markets.

305
00:14:21.354 --> 00:14:23.417
But just yes,

306
00:14:23.418 --> 00:14:23.901
to conclude,

307
00:14:24.081 --> 00:14:28.542
it's really interesting what you said when you compare global and local and vaccine and oncology,

308
00:14:28.589 --> 00:14:32.510
because some of the people in the audience are also people not from the industry,

309
00:14:32.651 --> 00:14:33.776
but from the ecosystem,

310
00:14:33.854 --> 00:14:37.776
maybe some administrative people working in health care.

311
00:14:38.455 --> 00:14:39.617
And it's also,

312
00:14:39.976 --> 00:14:40.237
I think,

313
00:14:40.297 --> 00:14:44.041
interesting to have this point of view of how you act,

314
00:14:44.042 --> 00:14:44.783
how you impact.

315
00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:45.361
Yeah.

316
00:14:45.362 --> 00:14:49.767
What's your view on this world also.

317
00:14:51.408 --> 00:14:52.588
And just to your word,

318
00:14:55.385 --> 00:14:57.447
I'm making an adjacent,

319
00:14:57.619 --> 00:15:00.041
but speaking about pharma,

320
00:15:00.697 --> 00:15:01.541
pharma talents,

321
00:15:02.244 --> 00:15:04.494
what they are driven by.

322
00:15:05.369 --> 00:15:05.682
and

323
00:15:07.167 --> 00:15:07.688
To be honest,

324
00:15:07.748 --> 00:15:11.951
what I've seen is that in most of the cases,

325
00:15:12.912 --> 00:15:14.135
regardless of the function,

326
00:15:14.693 --> 00:15:16.099
regardless of the role,

327
00:15:17.753 --> 00:15:19.654
people are purpose-driven in the industry.

328
00:15:20.756 --> 00:15:24.639
And I think this feeling of we contribute to something bigger,

329
00:15:25.322 --> 00:15:27.166
I've seen it in all the companies

330
00:15:28.307 --> 00:15:28.846
I've been into.

331
00:15:29.486 --> 00:15:30.385
Countries.

332
00:15:31.127 --> 00:15:31.268
Well,

333
00:15:31.447 --> 00:15:31.603
yeah,

334
00:15:31.666 --> 00:15:32.049
companies,

335
00:15:32.088 --> 00:15:32.603
countries,

336
00:15:32.744 --> 00:15:33.307
functions.

337
00:15:33.666 --> 00:15:34.572
I think that's the same.

338
00:15:36.103 --> 00:15:46.978
I'm sure that the admin in our department is part of this journey to address some of the need in our countries.

339
00:15:47.182 --> 00:15:47.369
and

340
00:15:47.689 --> 00:15:49.010
When it was about oncology,

341
00:15:49.991 --> 00:15:52.272
they've been part of the journey as well.

342
00:15:52.354 --> 00:15:53.795
So no doubt about that.

343
00:15:53.936 --> 00:15:54.077
Yeah,

344
00:15:54.116 --> 00:15:54.596
okay.

345
00:15:55.795 --> 00:15:55.975
Yes,

346
00:15:55.999 --> 00:15:57.717
to go back to your zone,

347
00:15:58.061 --> 00:15:58.358
EMEA.

348
00:15:58.499 --> 00:15:58.663
Yes.

349
00:15:59.881 --> 00:16:02.584
What it is to lead in a high-tech market.

350
00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:05.553
And which are the powerful,

351
00:16:06.241 --> 00:16:06.428
yes,

352
00:16:06.584 --> 00:16:07.272
innovations,

353
00:16:07.913 --> 00:16:09.256
drivers in the zone?

354
00:16:09.928 --> 00:16:10.116
Why?

355
00:16:10.709 --> 00:16:11.725
Is it growing?

356
00:16:12.991 --> 00:16:14.491
Why can they,

357
00:16:14.709 --> 00:16:14.928
yes,

358
00:16:15.834 --> 00:16:16.850
accept innovation?

359
00:16:18.974 --> 00:16:19.334
So I think

360
00:16:21.437 --> 00:16:27.745
I'm starting from the beginning about what it is to lead such an area.

361
00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:36.870
And let's not underestimate the geopolitical challenge and the situation of the people.

362
00:16:37.073 --> 00:16:37.589
And because,

363
00:16:38.073 --> 00:16:38.495
like I said,

364
00:16:38.511 --> 00:16:39.855
so in my region,

365
00:16:40.167 --> 00:16:40.480
I have

366
00:16:41.573 --> 00:16:42.558
Ukraine and Russia.

367
00:16:43.198 --> 00:16:44.464
I have the Middle East.

368
00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:47.667
So the first thing that...

369
00:16:48.385 --> 00:16:58.417
that you think about when you wake up in the morning is how I make sure that the employees are safe wherever they are in the region.

370
00:16:59.714 --> 00:17:01.315
And second,

371
00:17:02.276 --> 00:17:06.417
how we deliver on the mission of the company in a responsible,

372
00:17:06.745 --> 00:17:07.479
compliant manner.

373
00:17:07.557 --> 00:17:15.339
So I think it's hyper important to say it because that occupies a good part of the brain of the leader.

374
00:17:15.685 --> 00:17:21.610
And this is sometimes things that we take for granted in other areas of the world.

375
00:17:24.954 --> 00:17:28.915
And now if I go to your question about how do I maximize,

376
00:17:29.141 --> 00:17:30.141
how do I operate,

377
00:17:33.462 --> 00:17:38.384
I will be a bit kind of classical marketing in saying that,

378
00:17:39.134 --> 00:17:41.227
but it starts from understanding the needs.

379
00:17:43.629 --> 00:17:45.371
And when I say understanding the needs,

380
00:17:46.611 --> 00:17:55.399
the ranking of the priorities is not the same if you are a super wealthy country or if you start from the primary needs.

381
00:17:55.422 --> 00:18:01.266
And this is where you will have different approaches to prevention versus treatment,

382
00:18:02.031 --> 00:18:05.516
to affordable treatment versus super innovative.

383
00:18:06.375 --> 00:18:09.016
And this is our job to,

384
00:18:09.156 --> 00:18:09.891
on one side.

385
00:18:11.685 --> 00:18:20.835
with the priorities of our external stakeholders and at the same time to be hyper creative in what we bring in terms of solution.

386
00:18:21.093 --> 00:18:25.397
And I'm particularly proud of the teams with regards to that.

387
00:18:27.460 --> 00:18:30.116
But I think if I go one level further,

388
00:18:30.944 --> 00:18:35.350
what I find really interesting and might be a difference,

389
00:18:35.741 --> 00:18:37.788
coming back to some of your questions around

390
00:18:38.272 --> 00:18:39.132
Europe, US,

391
00:18:39.350 --> 00:18:39.475
etc.

392
00:18:41.393 --> 00:18:43.494
These markets are hyper volatile,

393
00:18:44.074 --> 00:18:44.475
for sure,

394
00:18:46.254 --> 00:18:48.113
but the underlying trajectory is growth.

395
00:18:48.996 --> 00:18:53.113
And I think if you take this type of hypothesis,

396
00:18:54.058 --> 00:18:55.293
then it all becomes,

397
00:18:56.215 --> 00:18:56.894
what do I do?

398
00:18:57.113 --> 00:18:59.949
What should we do to capture this growth and to maximize this growth?

399
00:19:00.558 --> 00:19:09.777
And I think that really gives some possibilities that you wouldn't find in more established markets in being very bold in terms of what.

400
00:19:10.117 --> 00:19:13.780
What are the partnerships we could do with the authorities?

401
00:19:15.704 --> 00:19:18.684
How we can plan for long term?

402
00:19:19.450 --> 00:19:20.466
And at the same time,

403
00:19:20.770 --> 00:19:25.372
how are we super disciplined so that we progress on a day-to-day basis?

404
00:19:26.012 --> 00:19:26.137
So

405
00:19:27.419 --> 00:19:29.012
I think I'm coming back to your question,

406
00:19:29.450 --> 00:19:32.716
probably more rooms to maneuver than in established environments.

407
00:19:32.919 --> 00:19:33.216
Yes.

408
00:19:33.606 --> 00:19:35.356
Even if you don't have the stability with you,

409
00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:38.684
even if you don't maybe have the vision or less vision.

410
00:19:39.450 --> 00:19:42.093
And this is why I think it's super interesting,

411
00:19:42.372 --> 00:19:45.394
super tricky from an execution standpoint,

412
00:19:45.917 --> 00:19:47.120
because it's on one side.

413
00:19:47.659 --> 00:19:52.425
It takes to be bold on the strategic aspect because this is what the environment wants.

414
00:19:52.644 --> 00:19:52.824
Yes.

415
00:19:53.120 --> 00:19:56.628
Because the stakeholders want to build their infrastructure.

416
00:19:56.988 --> 00:19:58.691
They want to raise their standard of care.

417
00:19:58.972 --> 00:20:03.675
It's not marginal improvement like in some other areas.

418
00:20:03.956 --> 00:20:05.253
So it has to be bold.

419
00:20:05.628 --> 00:20:06.503
but at the same time

420
00:20:07.033 --> 00:20:12.319
What are the guardrails that we put from a day-to-day basis to progress in that direction?

421
00:20:12.358 --> 00:20:13.799
So that's fascinating.

422
00:20:13.838 --> 00:20:14.381
I can imagine.

423
00:20:14.401 --> 00:20:19.588
But if I look maybe to more developed market,

424
00:20:19.666 --> 00:20:20.424
more stable market,

425
00:20:21.948 --> 00:20:22.291
maybe,

426
00:20:22.846 --> 00:20:25.065
and maybe you have something in mind about this,

427
00:20:25.127 --> 00:20:33.955
but maybe they can get inspiration also about maybe this kind of way of thinking we've lost or we don't need.

428
00:20:34.708 --> 00:20:35.609
Like urgently,

429
00:20:35.769 --> 00:20:37.152
but it would be useful maybe.

430
00:20:38.511 --> 00:20:38.972
I'm sure.

431
00:20:39.554 --> 00:20:47.640
So you bring me in the direction of how I look about mature markets or how I look at about Europe.

432
00:20:48.140 --> 00:20:50.937
And so allow me for a kind of a quick disclaimer.

433
00:20:51.765 --> 00:20:55.468
I think you are an expat as well.

434
00:20:55.671 --> 00:20:58.359
And so you live outside of the country.

435
00:20:58.859 --> 00:21:03.499
And I think it takes some grain of salt to speak because...

436
00:21:03.780 --> 00:21:11.126
I think being outside of the country creates a very kind of a special relation to look from the outside.

437
00:21:11.892 --> 00:21:13.994
And I think because there is this idea of,

438
00:21:13.995 --> 00:21:14.111
OK,

439
00:21:14.587 --> 00:21:15.330
I should be cautious.

440
00:21:15.509 --> 00:21:18.056
I don't belong completely anymore.

441
00:21:18.634 --> 00:21:19.861
And on the other hand,

442
00:21:21.517 --> 00:21:23.876
I think that creates an attachment to look from the outside.

443
00:21:24.158 --> 00:21:26.986
I think there is a bit of a Toma Pesce into that.

444
00:21:28.505 --> 00:21:29.446
Looking from above,

445
00:21:29.706 --> 00:21:31.288
but I don't know if it's the same for you,

446
00:21:31.289 --> 00:21:32.407
but when I look at France,

447
00:21:32.528 --> 00:21:34.232
when I look at Europe from the outside,

448
00:21:34.673 --> 00:21:34.911
you say,

449
00:21:34.912 --> 00:21:35.149
hey,

450
00:21:35.392 --> 00:21:35.931
it looks good.

451
00:21:36.790 --> 00:21:37.470
It looks good.

452
00:21:39.478 --> 00:21:41.517
And there are plenty of things that we should be proud of.

453
00:21:41.595 --> 00:21:42.720
So I think so.

454
00:21:43.157 --> 00:21:44.423
That's where I'm speaking from.

455
00:21:44.564 --> 00:21:47.548
I speak as a kind of a proud European.

456
00:21:48.642 --> 00:21:54.157
But to your question about what can we take from emerging markets?

457
00:21:56.868 --> 00:21:57.749
I would say two things.

458
00:21:58.548 --> 00:21:58.849
What can...

459
00:21:59.250 --> 00:22:00.910
The spirit of growth in India.

460
00:22:01.410 --> 00:22:01.910
About growth,

461
00:22:02.050 --> 00:22:02.308
exactly.

462
00:22:02.691 --> 00:22:04.128
And maybe instability.

463
00:22:05.027 --> 00:22:05.753
And yes,

464
00:22:05.886 --> 00:22:06.269
exactly.

465
00:22:06.550 --> 00:22:09.972
So let me give you a very concrete example.

466
00:22:11.433 --> 00:22:12.652
It was last week,

467
00:22:13.558 --> 00:22:17.433
I had a partner coming from Lebanon,

468
00:22:17.558 --> 00:22:22.168
and he was speaking about the business risk in Middle East and all of that.

469
00:22:23.355 --> 00:22:24.839
And he was using this quote,

470
00:22:24.918 --> 00:22:25.808
which is kind of a...

471
00:22:26.384 --> 00:22:26.605
Nice,

472
00:22:26.645 --> 00:22:27.506
but bittersweet.

473
00:22:27.886 --> 00:22:28.365
He was saying,

474
00:22:28.406 --> 00:22:28.807
you know what?

475
00:22:28.947 --> 00:22:30.768
People tell me to be cautious,

476
00:22:31.248 --> 00:22:32.752
but I've been cautious since I was born.

477
00:22:33.369 --> 00:22:36.377
And I think that says it all.

478
00:22:36.736 --> 00:22:43.197
I think what you will find into these markets is the appetite,

479
00:22:43.416 --> 00:22:45.369
the call to project in the future.

480
00:22:45.729 --> 00:22:46.807
Because today it's difficult,

481
00:22:46.838 --> 00:22:48.088
tomorrow it's going to be better.

482
00:22:48.229 --> 00:22:48.994
And we build the better.

483
00:22:49.666 --> 00:22:54.229
And I think this is sometimes that what...

484
00:22:55.880 --> 00:23:03.021
What we may have lost is this idea that tomorrow will be better and we should do tomorrow better than today.

485
00:23:03.744 --> 00:23:09.720
And that maybe there is more risk in maintaining than in trying something.

486
00:23:09.845 --> 00:23:12.486
So I think that there might.

487
00:23:13.251 --> 00:23:16.189
And this is not something I take from Europe.

488
00:23:16.220 --> 00:23:21.720
This is more something I take from the emerging markets where I see this continuous projection.

489
00:23:22.767 --> 00:23:23.720
The second element

490
00:23:24.611 --> 00:23:24.861
I would.

491
00:23:25.008 --> 00:23:27.570
take and it's probably a bit more aspirational,

492
00:23:27.710 --> 00:23:28.472
philosophical,

493
00:23:29.331 --> 00:23:29.593
but

494
00:23:30.472 --> 00:23:37.703
I'm coming back to this situation of war that my teams have been experiencing throughout the region.

495
00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:53.671
What I've been finding fascinating is how people go to the office and find their purpose while everything is going wrong around to be on the job.

496
00:23:54.312 --> 00:23:56.014
And to say to themselves,

497
00:23:56.015 --> 00:23:57.335
to say to each other,

498
00:23:59.138 --> 00:24:01.279
this is where we can do something.

499
00:24:01.657 --> 00:24:08.970
This is where we can be for good and basically occupying our day in the best manner.

500
00:24:09.368 --> 00:24:14.697
And I think that there is really something that sometimes when we take everything for granted,

501
00:24:15.025 --> 00:24:18.915
that we can be together with a given purpose,

502
00:24:19.181 --> 00:24:20.322
with some common values.

503
00:24:21.757 --> 00:24:23.437
for a kind of a greater good.

504
00:24:23.438 --> 00:24:23.799
Interesting.

505
00:24:23.800 --> 00:24:27.183
It means that they don't go to work just to work.

506
00:24:27.824 --> 00:24:28.082
Clearly.

507
00:24:28.344 --> 00:24:30.988
It's maybe the best part of their day.

508
00:24:31.324 --> 00:24:31.707
Exactly.

509
00:24:32.051 --> 00:24:32.386
Exactly.

510
00:24:32.910 --> 00:24:33.246
Exactly.

511
00:24:33.566 --> 00:24:34.793
Now it's pretty powerful.

512
00:24:34.794 --> 00:24:34.910
Yeah,

513
00:24:34.949 --> 00:24:35.191
yeah.

514
00:24:35.551 --> 00:24:39.894
They will do their best and they will try to help the other also to do so.

515
00:24:39.895 --> 00:24:40.988
Exactly.

516
00:24:41.019 --> 00:24:43.879
And that comes back to this kind of purpose-driven,

517
00:24:43.894 --> 00:24:44.972
to the mission of the industry.

518
00:24:45.785 --> 00:24:47.535
People go to work because they believe in what they do.

519
00:24:48.660 --> 00:24:48.863
Yes.

520
00:24:49.347 --> 00:24:49.941
In this industry,

521
00:24:49.957 --> 00:24:50.551
it makes sense.

522
00:24:50.660 --> 00:24:50.785
Yeah.

523
00:24:51.208 --> 00:24:51.709
Really sense.

524
00:24:51.729 --> 00:24:51.869
Okay.

525
00:24:51.990 --> 00:24:53.271
And yeah,

526
00:24:53.272 --> 00:24:54.152
do you see other things?

527
00:24:56.212 --> 00:24:56.412
Yes.

528
00:24:56.896 --> 00:24:57.236
On this,

529
00:24:58.595 --> 00:25:01.279
from what you see in this kind of,

530
00:25:03.123 --> 00:25:03.404
maybe

531
00:25:04.162 --> 00:25:06.763
I'm just like thinking this together with you,

532
00:25:06.764 --> 00:25:08.748
but when you see also countries,

533
00:25:09.310 --> 00:25:09.482
yes,

534
00:25:09.529 --> 00:25:12.373
with geopolitics differences.

535
00:25:12.904 --> 00:25:13.810
But like I said,

536
00:25:16.748 --> 00:25:20.013
let's not underestimate the role.

537
00:25:20.829 --> 00:25:22.734
that companies,

538
00:25:23.456 --> 00:25:29.087
that the enterprise can play in bringing people together.

539
00:25:29.852 --> 00:25:30.753
in challenging times.

540
00:25:30.793 --> 00:25:31.214
And by the way,

541
00:25:31.253 --> 00:25:33.014
this is something that we've seen at the time of COVID,

542
00:25:33.495 --> 00:25:34.878
where everyone was isolated.

543
00:25:35.057 --> 00:25:39.440
And the only thing that was bringing people together was to be behind the screen and kind of,

544
00:25:40.503 --> 00:25:53.292
and I think what I see around that is that regardless of all the differences of perspective that you would find in a region,

545
00:25:54.964 --> 00:25:56.479
what makes that people kind of

546
00:25:58.248 --> 00:25:58.908
Impact together,

547
00:25:59.089 --> 00:26:00.731
work together is the purpose,

548
00:26:01.410 --> 00:26:05.276
but also the values and the way of working that the company set.

549
00:26:05.737 --> 00:26:05.936
Yes.

550
00:26:06.115 --> 00:26:10.022
And because sometimes it looks like kind of things on a paper.

551
00:26:11.100 --> 00:26:13.725
But when you are in this kind of extreme situation,

552
00:26:14.764 --> 00:26:22.108
the respect means something and it becomes a common language.

553
00:26:22.170 --> 00:26:22.436
And then

554
00:26:23.139 --> 00:26:25.155
I've clearly experienced in my region,

555
00:26:25.655 --> 00:26:27.858
people kind of checking on each other wherever they are.

556
00:26:28.028 --> 00:26:29.149
from wherever side they are.

557
00:26:29.470 --> 00:26:30.409
And I think that's pretty strong.

558
00:26:31.411 --> 00:26:33.335
And yes,

559
00:26:33.694 --> 00:26:37.975
it's maybe also something the government cannot give.

560
00:26:38.741 --> 00:26:38.858
Oh,

561
00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:39.882
exactly.

562
00:26:40.421 --> 00:26:44.968
So that's why I think this enterprise should be a kind of a safe space.

563
00:26:45.608 --> 00:26:45.749
Yes,

564
00:26:45.780 --> 00:26:46.327
not a family,

565
00:26:46.405 --> 00:26:47.233
but a second.

566
00:26:47.468 --> 00:26:48.093
Exactly.

567
00:26:48.483 --> 00:26:49.390
Second safe space.

568
00:26:50.046 --> 00:26:50.296
Okay.

569
00:26:51.108 --> 00:26:51.311
Yes,

570
00:26:51.390 --> 00:26:51.968
interesting.

571
00:26:52.015 --> 00:26:55.561
And yes,

572
00:26:55.593 --> 00:26:56.655
you've talked a lot about,

573
00:26:57.140 --> 00:26:57.296
yes.

574
00:26:57.384 --> 00:26:58.084
this zone.

575
00:27:00.467 --> 00:27:02.430
I would like to talk about your career.

576
00:27:02.609 --> 00:27:05.555
Unless you have something else.

577
00:27:05.609 --> 00:27:05.734
No,

578
00:27:05.735 --> 00:27:05.851
no,

579
00:27:05.891 --> 00:27:10.094
let's go there.

580
00:27:10.095 --> 00:27:14.562
But maybe about staying sharp in your career.

581
00:27:15.156 --> 00:27:15.906
Because you said yes,

582
00:27:16.656 --> 00:27:21.500
you've made bold moves and you didn't follow the

583
00:27:23.008 --> 00:27:23.368
I don't know,

584
00:27:23.388 --> 00:27:34.259
maybe the expected moves or the comfortable move or like the next step.

585
00:27:34.517 --> 00:27:34.837
You've made,

586
00:27:34.838 --> 00:27:35.298
like you said,

587
00:27:35.361 --> 00:27:36.400
like the two extremes.

588
00:27:37.064 --> 00:27:37.181
Yeah,

589
00:27:37.205 --> 00:27:37.322
yeah.

590
00:27:39.517 --> 00:27:39.861
And I think...

591
00:27:40.064 --> 00:27:41.923
Maybe you don't sort your career like this,

592
00:27:42.126 --> 00:27:42.251
but...

593
00:27:42.392 --> 00:27:42.501
No,

594
00:27:42.502 --> 00:27:42.626
no,

595
00:27:42.642 --> 00:27:48.080
but what you're trying to touch is what drives the transition,

596
00:27:48.267 --> 00:27:49.220
how we build a career,

597
00:27:50.501 --> 00:27:51.314
these type of things.

598
00:27:52.001 --> 00:27:52.361
and um

599
00:27:53.556 --> 00:27:54.276
How much risk?

600
00:27:54.596 --> 00:27:58.178
I think this is where you're coming back to this notion of risk.

601
00:28:00.397 --> 00:28:05.998
So first thing to say is that a career should be looked from a long run perspective.

602
00:28:06.436 --> 00:28:07.459
So it's a marathon.

603
00:28:07.881 --> 00:28:08.100
Yes,

604
00:28:08.295 --> 00:28:08.483
yes,

605
00:28:08.537 --> 00:28:08.740
yes.

606
00:28:08.858 --> 00:28:09.545
It's a marathon.

607
00:28:09.717 --> 00:28:11.264
It's not a sprint.

608
00:28:12.139 --> 00:28:12.295
Yes,

609
00:28:12.358 --> 00:28:15.779
it's interesting you say that risk is part of a marathon.

610
00:28:16.139 --> 00:28:16.467
Exactly.

611
00:28:16.904 --> 00:28:18.358
And can be part of it.

612
00:28:18.826 --> 00:28:19.217
Exactly.

613
00:28:20.639 --> 00:28:22.920
So it should be looked from.

614
00:28:23.384 --> 00:28:40.291
a long-term perspective and if i don't know if it works with your marathon a kind of analogy but one should be clear about the fact that there are some times for acceleration but there are tons of time for kind of consolidation

615
00:28:40.292 --> 00:28:52.697
um yeah management passions resilience so i think that's the that's really the the way i take it with regards to the risk

616
00:28:52.912 --> 00:28:53.432
taking,

617
00:28:54.734 --> 00:28:56.996
because we are going there in the transition,

618
00:28:59.558 --> 00:28:59.937
podcast.

619
00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:03.324
So let me quote you a podcast,

620
00:29:04.363 --> 00:29:05.105
a recent one,

621
00:29:05.761 --> 00:29:06.363
Charles Pepin,

622
00:29:06.863 --> 00:29:07.246
I don't know,

623
00:29:07.269 --> 00:29:07.707
philosophy.

624
00:29:08.386 --> 00:29:11.316
He was speaking about,

625
00:29:12.707 --> 00:29:14.066
should we take risk about the risk?

626
00:29:14.957 --> 00:29:19.675
And he was kind of asking about what's the biggest risk in knife.

627
00:29:20.738 --> 00:29:21.894
And I think the

628
00:29:22.404 --> 00:29:26.048
He was describing that basically the biggest risk is not to achieve your purpose.

629
00:29:27.509 --> 00:29:28.548
And I think if you take it...

630
00:29:28.571 --> 00:29:29.372
Not to lose something.

631
00:29:29.892 --> 00:29:30.353
Exactly.

632
00:29:30.775 --> 00:29:31.071
Exactly.

633
00:29:31.712 --> 00:29:33.134
If you take it like that,

634
00:29:34.915 --> 00:29:38.736
I think there is more risk in not trying anything than trying something.

635
00:29:40.986 --> 00:29:43.189
And if you have this type of angle...

636
00:29:44.432 --> 00:29:45.033
From there,

637
00:29:45.213 --> 00:29:48.616
it doesn't look so risky to try some new things.

638
00:29:48.617 --> 00:29:53.803
So I think that's probably one angle

639
00:29:54.241 --> 00:29:57.983
I would like to take in looking at the transition.

640
00:29:59.803 --> 00:30:08.850
And the other one is probably something that is more in an internal DNA or not,

641
00:30:10.459 --> 00:30:12.334
which is how long to stay.

642
00:30:15.642 --> 00:30:16.022
In the game?

643
00:30:16.082 --> 00:30:19.528
In the game or just somewhere.

644
00:30:21.309 --> 00:30:26.449
And this is something that I deeply have in me,

645
00:30:29.278 --> 00:30:32.918
which is that at some point there is a necessary departure.

646
00:30:34.074 --> 00:30:34.387
Okay,

647
00:30:34.465 --> 00:30:34.621
yeah.

648
00:30:35.606 --> 00:30:37.449
And so it doesn't come from me,

649
00:30:37.637 --> 00:30:37.965
this one,

650
00:30:37.966 --> 00:30:41.059
but I think it's from Delphine Orvilleur.

651
00:30:41.293 --> 00:30:42.371
She speaks about that.

652
00:30:43.456 --> 00:30:46.740
And since I've heard that,

653
00:30:46.839 --> 00:30:49.242
this is something that is really deeply into me,

654
00:30:49.664 --> 00:30:52.808
is the fact that at some point you have to push yourself.

655
00:30:54.308 --> 00:30:55.105
Nothing is forever.

656
00:30:55.605 --> 00:30:55.988
Exactly,

657
00:30:56.386 --> 00:30:56.769
exactly,

658
00:30:57.089 --> 00:30:57.410
exactly.

659
00:30:57.933 --> 00:30:59.394
But again,

660
00:31:00.394 --> 00:31:02.957
it's personal and we should be very respectful.

661
00:31:03.535 --> 00:31:03.691
Yes,

662
00:31:03.692 --> 00:31:03.816
yes.

663
00:31:03.863 --> 00:31:04.316
And you say,

664
00:31:05.613 --> 00:31:07.879
I go back to like going local and global.

665
00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:08.113
You said,

666
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:08.347
okay,

667
00:31:08.425 --> 00:31:10.425
sometimes it's not made for everyone.

668
00:31:10.800 --> 00:31:10.957
Yes.

669
00:31:11.940 --> 00:31:12.120
Yes,

670
00:31:12.180 --> 00:31:14.983
but nothing is forever.

671
00:31:15.584 --> 00:31:20.447
But I think this is where I'm going to this type of conclusion,

672
00:31:20.666 --> 00:31:24.033
which is that it's more positive to transition than not.

673
00:31:24.455 --> 00:31:29.151
Because if you take on one side that nothing is forever,

674
00:31:29.760 --> 00:31:30.635
and on top of that,

675
00:31:31.104 --> 00:31:33.682
that it's only by going forward that you go towards your purpose.

676
00:31:34.100 --> 00:31:36.441
I think there are more incentives to move.

677
00:31:36.442 --> 00:31:37.281
But if you add,

678
00:31:37.340 --> 00:31:37.541
okay,

679
00:31:38.660 --> 00:31:39.941
I'm afraid of losing,

680
00:31:39.980 --> 00:31:40.340
I don't know,

681
00:31:40.461 --> 00:31:41.641
my status or whatever,

682
00:31:41.762 --> 00:31:42.305
my salary,

683
00:31:42.445 --> 00:31:42.602
my...

684
00:31:44.141 --> 00:31:44.766
But that's the point.

685
00:31:45.242 --> 00:31:46.086
Is it the right thing?

686
00:31:46.484 --> 00:31:47.727
Is it the right thing to consider?

687
00:31:48.063 --> 00:31:49.086
Or is there something bigger?

688
00:31:49.641 --> 00:31:49.766
And

689
00:31:50.500 --> 00:31:51.656
I think there is something bigger.

690
00:31:51.938 --> 00:31:52.297
If we say,

691
00:31:52.766 --> 00:31:54.578
my goal is to maximize my impact,

692
00:31:54.609 --> 00:31:55.297
to make innovation.

693
00:31:55.922 --> 00:31:57.344
And if I just do it there where

694
00:31:57.922 --> 00:31:59.125
I could do it 10 times bigger,

695
00:31:59.188 --> 00:31:59.922
if I try something,

696
00:32:00.031 --> 00:32:02.563
then suddenly that gives an opportunity to project.

697
00:32:03.188 --> 00:32:03.422
And then?

698
00:32:04.288 --> 00:32:04.628
What do you do?

699
00:32:05.609 --> 00:32:08.212
You just go in the direction of your goal?

700
00:32:09.173 --> 00:32:11.954
But I think let's be honest about that.

701
00:32:14.060 --> 00:32:15.177
It never happens as planned.

702
00:32:15.583 --> 00:32:15.942
Yes.

703
00:32:16.583 --> 00:32:16.817
Never,

704
00:32:17.458 --> 00:32:17.763
never.

705
00:32:21.802 --> 00:32:24.771
Because

706
00:32:25.224 --> 00:32:29.708
I was speaking about it's a collective game,

707
00:32:29.896 --> 00:32:30.317
of course.

708
00:32:31.368 --> 00:32:34.529
It's a collective game with the family.

709
00:32:34.530 --> 00:32:38.971
It's a collective game with the opportunities.

710
00:32:39.529 --> 00:32:41.748
It's a collective game with the company.

711
00:32:44.693 --> 00:32:48.154
I had a boss who was saying a company is not a shopping mall.

712
00:32:48.592 --> 00:32:49.967
I fully agree with that.

713
00:32:51.514 --> 00:32:54.029
So I think it goes with this ability to,

714
00:32:54.795 --> 00:32:55.748
on one side,

715
00:32:55.998 --> 00:32:59.139
align a personal drive.

716
00:33:00.756 --> 00:33:01.816
with a company agenda,

717
00:33:02.377 --> 00:33:03.256
with a family agenda.

718
00:33:03.697 --> 00:33:04.957
And when the stars get aligned,

719
00:33:04.976 --> 00:33:07.359
it's about catching the opportunity.

720
00:33:07.836 --> 00:33:07.957
So,

721
00:33:08.176 --> 00:33:08.316
yeah,

722
00:33:08.980 --> 00:33:09.676
there is definitely,

723
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:14.277
I think it goes back to my leadership in emerging markets.

724
00:33:15.176 --> 00:33:16.777
It takes some bold strategic vision,

725
00:33:16.855 --> 00:33:21.043
but also some opportunism to catch the right opportunities when they come.

726
00:33:21.246 --> 00:33:21.918
Okay,

727
00:33:22.027 --> 00:33:28.387
and then your work maybe is also to have a clear vision and to...

728
00:33:28.844 --> 00:33:47.240
yes have a clear purpose maybe and to tell it to explain it yes so obviously i think um so this notion of um what do i want to do the the my very first sentence opening sentence around what's my purpose this is something i i got since the beginning and

729
00:33:47.286 --> 00:33:53.411
then i think all the questions along that is how do i get closer to that so so that's the so for example can you

730
00:33:53.608 --> 00:33:55.889
Can you tell us your purpose?

731
00:33:56.168 --> 00:33:56.609
Well,

732
00:33:56.649 --> 00:33:57.309
but I've said it.

733
00:33:57.869 --> 00:33:58.108
For me,

734
00:33:58.369 --> 00:34:03.072
my purpose is all about kind of bringing innovation to patients.

735
00:34:03.174 --> 00:34:04.408
So it's all about that.

736
00:34:04.471 --> 00:34:05.768
And then from that,

737
00:34:06.510 --> 00:34:07.971
I started in health economics because

738
00:34:09.885 --> 00:34:13.166
I was believing in the power of market access into that.

739
00:34:13.213 --> 00:34:13.479
But then

740
00:34:13.994 --> 00:34:15.135
I've been into sales,

741
00:34:15.416 --> 00:34:17.369
and then I've been into this big corporate project,

742
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:21.916
and now I'm maximizing my impact on a very large population in the world.

743
00:34:23.253 --> 00:34:23.973
So I think that's,

744
00:34:24.374 --> 00:34:29.899
so it's a kind of a balance between how do I get closer to my purpose,

745
00:34:30.801 --> 00:34:32.598
how I consider every opportunity.

746
00:34:33.996 --> 00:34:34.836
With this framework,

747
00:34:35.557 --> 00:34:36.739
how does it bring me closer?

748
00:34:37.200 --> 00:34:39.260
How does it create some options?

749
00:34:39.299 --> 00:34:40.803
How much does it close some options?

750
00:34:42.604 --> 00:34:43.424
And at the same time,

751
00:34:43.487 --> 00:34:44.463
to be realistic,

752
00:34:44.549 --> 00:34:45.049
like I said,

753
00:34:45.448 --> 00:34:46.846
with other considerations,

754
00:34:47.206 --> 00:34:48.588
which is the agenda of the family,

755
00:34:48.893 --> 00:34:49.518
of the company,

756
00:34:50.096 --> 00:34:50.846
what has to be done.

757
00:34:52.378 --> 00:34:53.018
And you navigate.

758
00:34:53.112 --> 00:34:53.253
Yes,

759
00:34:53.331 --> 00:34:53.471
yes,

760
00:34:53.518 --> 00:34:53.643
yes.

761
00:34:53.721 --> 00:34:57.487
Maybe you have an example of this kind of challenging transformation.

762
00:34:57.753 --> 00:34:57.878
So,

763
00:34:59.003 --> 00:34:59.143
but

764
00:35:00.018 --> 00:35:01.362
I can just speak about...

765
00:35:03.412 --> 00:35:05.054
My last five,

766
00:35:05.214 --> 00:35:08.699
six years and how I ended up into this role.

767
00:35:09.699 --> 00:35:10.359
It was planned?

768
00:35:11.503 --> 00:35:11.878
Yes and no.

769
00:35:11.902 --> 00:35:13.925
So let me elaborate on that for a second.

770
00:35:16.667 --> 00:35:19.105
So I was managing director and then the plan was,

771
00:35:19.106 --> 00:35:19.230
OK,

772
00:35:19.386 --> 00:35:19.589
Marc,

773
00:35:19.667 --> 00:35:22.011
you've never been into the

774
00:35:22.636 --> 00:35:23.667
MSD headquarters,

775
00:35:23.839 --> 00:35:25.230
you've never been in oncology,

776
00:35:25.355 --> 00:35:30.136
so let's do a rotation in oncology.

777
00:35:30.699 --> 00:35:31.324
So I started,

778
00:35:31.417 --> 00:35:32.277
I did this great job.

779
00:35:32.744 --> 00:35:33.304
in strategy.

780
00:35:33.644 --> 00:35:34.384
But then after that,

781
00:35:35.345 --> 00:35:41.083
it didn't happen like planned because there has been some management rotation.

782
00:35:41.185 --> 00:35:43.607
And then I had to do a second job in OCO,

783
00:35:44.247 --> 00:35:45.326
a third job in OCO.

784
00:35:46.466 --> 00:35:51.310
And then it really kind of tests your resilience,

785
00:35:51.341 --> 00:35:52.904
your ability to go deeper,

786
00:35:53.232 --> 00:35:54.341
to adjust your plans.

787
00:35:54.904 --> 00:35:55.622
And then after that,

788
00:35:55.841 --> 00:35:57.810
was it planned to take this region?

789
00:35:58.435 --> 00:35:58.966
Not necessarily.

790
00:35:59.091 --> 00:36:01.185
There were some ideas.

791
00:36:03.944 --> 00:36:04.244
But

792
00:36:05.305 --> 00:36:08.871
I think the reading is pretty clear for me.

793
00:36:09.488 --> 00:36:11.511
If it fits with a bigger plan,

794
00:36:15.035 --> 00:36:16.058
if the guts feel it,

795
00:36:16.316 --> 00:36:16.574
I think.

796
00:36:17.214 --> 00:36:19.800
And I think I'm touching a super important point,

797
00:36:19.855 --> 00:36:21.558
which is at the end,

798
00:36:21.636 --> 00:36:23.464
we can give whatever advice,

799
00:36:24.449 --> 00:36:25.339
but this is in the guts.

800
00:36:25.699 --> 00:36:28.605
So and if there is this click,

801
00:36:29.167 --> 00:36:29.933
then it's going to be good.

802
00:36:30.667 --> 00:36:30.808
Yes,

803
00:36:31.167 --> 00:36:31.496
maybe.

804
00:36:31.808 --> 00:36:31.933
Yeah.

805
00:36:32.500 --> 00:36:34.579
Like the meeting with the right person,

806
00:36:34.601 --> 00:36:35.200
the right people.

807
00:36:35.300 --> 00:36:35.681
Exactly.

808
00:36:35.980 --> 00:36:41.900
It's about connecting with the right people,

809
00:36:41.986 --> 00:36:42.782
with the right leaders.

810
00:36:43.540 --> 00:36:50.697
All the big connections have been associated for me with the right people that at some point you just look in the eyes and you say,

811
00:36:50.698 --> 00:36:50.822
OK,

812
00:36:51.056 --> 00:36:51.290
we go.

813
00:36:52.072 --> 00:36:52.822
And that happens.

814
00:36:52.837 --> 00:36:52.978
Yes.

815
00:36:53.181 --> 00:36:53.962
But behind that,

816
00:36:54.072 --> 00:36:54.368
I think.

817
00:36:54.822 --> 00:36:55.400
And like I said,

818
00:36:55.681 --> 00:36:58.618
so there is this kind of a sort of master plan.

819
00:36:59.212 --> 00:36:59.368
Yes.

820
00:37:00.708 --> 00:37:02.249
There's this sort of master plan.

821
00:37:02.709 --> 00:37:04.532
And even if the option,

822
00:37:06.813 --> 00:37:11.160
the proposition is not exactly the same with the one that was anticipated,

823
00:37:11.879 --> 00:37:13.200
it's all about how close.

824
00:37:13.918 --> 00:37:14.598
And I think one,

825
00:37:15.543 --> 00:37:19.450
something I would really advise to consider is when looking at a job,

826
00:37:20.825 --> 00:37:23.590
how much does it create options versus how much does it close option?

827
00:37:24.746 --> 00:37:25.512
It's hard to say now.

828
00:37:25.965 --> 00:37:26.153
Sorry?

829
00:37:26.293 --> 00:37:27.012
It's hard to say now.

830
00:37:27.809 --> 00:37:28.137
Wow.

831
00:37:28.309 --> 00:37:28.434
So...

832
00:37:28.948 --> 00:37:29.568
Something like,

833
00:37:29.769 --> 00:37:33.971
I'm just taking some very basic illustrations.

834
00:37:34.413 --> 00:37:38.319
Someone who has never done sales suddenly has the opportunity to do sales.

835
00:37:38.920 --> 00:37:40.639
That's a whole world of opportunities.

836
00:37:41.100 --> 00:37:43.202
Someone who has never lived their own country,

837
00:37:43.741 --> 00:37:45.991
suddenly it's a whole world of opportunities.

838
00:37:46.147 --> 00:37:47.147
So that's the type of things.

839
00:37:47.303 --> 00:37:47.444
Yes,

840
00:37:47.460 --> 00:37:47.585
yes.

841
00:37:47.647 --> 00:37:48.100
But yes,

842
00:37:48.147 --> 00:37:48.272
OK,

843
00:37:48.741 --> 00:37:50.272
the second option can be a bit more,

844
00:37:51.506 --> 00:37:51.772
yes,

845
00:37:51.975 --> 00:37:52.444
challenging,

846
00:37:52.631 --> 00:37:52.991
as you say,

847
00:37:53.710 --> 00:37:55.381
sometimes because of the context.

848
00:37:56.116 --> 00:37:56.616
And OK,

849
00:37:56.710 --> 00:37:57.116
you feel more.

850
00:37:57.468 --> 00:37:58.168
Not comfortable,

851
00:37:58.188 --> 00:38:00.449
but you want to follow the family.

852
00:38:01.068 --> 00:38:01.189
Yeah,

853
00:38:01.269 --> 00:38:01.750
of course.

854
00:38:01.769 --> 00:38:04.667
Or you don't want to go to the place they ask you.

855
00:38:05.406 --> 00:38:05.851
And I think

856
00:38:06.531 --> 00:38:09.234
I genuinely go back to that.

857
00:38:10.492 --> 00:38:12.414
It's not one fits for all.

858
00:38:13.132 --> 00:38:13.437
I think

859
00:38:15.718 --> 00:38:19.953
I have colleagues who tell me there is only one job in life.

860
00:38:20.078 --> 00:38:21.015
It's managing directors.

861
00:38:21.109 --> 00:38:24.046
I have others who tell me there is only one thing that matters.

862
00:38:24.109 --> 00:38:24.812
This is science.

863
00:38:25.375 --> 00:38:25.890
And it's okay.

864
00:38:26.234 --> 00:38:26.796
I think it's...

865
00:38:27.676 --> 00:38:29.298
It's about self-exploration as well.

866
00:38:30.378 --> 00:38:30.558
Okay,

867
00:38:30.619 --> 00:38:33.921
and then if we go to your leadership,

868
00:38:36.007 --> 00:38:40.312
how did it evolve following these experiences?

869
00:38:40.710 --> 00:38:44.468
Because you learn.

870
00:38:45.812 --> 00:38:51.421
So leadership is really a kind of a continuous journey.

871
00:38:51.734 --> 00:38:52.999
It's an everyday.

872
00:38:53.140 --> 00:38:53.796
It goes with you,

873
00:38:53.859 --> 00:38:54.578
yeah.

874
00:38:54.609 --> 00:38:56.828
It's an everyday journey for sure.

875
00:38:57.036 --> 00:38:59.318
on which we should be super humble.

876
00:39:01.779 --> 00:39:02.283
But yes,

877
00:39:02.482 --> 00:39:03.021
of course,

878
00:39:03.220 --> 00:39:04.181
the experience is,

879
00:39:05.306 --> 00:39:05.681
of course,

880
00:39:05.682 --> 00:39:06.322
the experience,

881
00:39:07.228 --> 00:39:12.369
it's being shaped by an inner self and the experience.

882
00:39:16.119 --> 00:39:17.291
And if I just take,

883
00:39:17.292 --> 00:39:19.134
if I just take a few illustrations,

884
00:39:19.916 --> 00:39:25.963
I have in me some kind of natural energy that's the kind of the foundation that I keep and that I pull.

885
00:39:26.797 --> 00:39:27.818
Whenever it's needed.

886
00:39:28.420 --> 00:39:33.166
I think I learned a ton when I was in Sweden speaking about kind of...

887
00:39:35.487 --> 00:39:37.769
more being more in the pool than in being in the push.

888
00:39:38.109 --> 00:39:39.710
I think that's really something

889
00:39:40.230 --> 00:39:42.515
I learned there that I used a ton when,

890
00:39:43.777 --> 00:39:47.675
when I was in at the global headquarters,

891
00:39:47.761 --> 00:39:49.480
because it's all about impact and influence.

892
00:39:49.481 --> 00:39:50.706
So I think there,

893
00:39:50.707 --> 00:39:51.316
there has been some,

894
00:39:52.378 --> 00:39:53.941
there has been some transition there.

895
00:39:54.925 --> 00:39:57.441
I learned a ton in the U S in terms of being clearer.

896
00:39:57.925 --> 00:40:01.456
I think this tendency that we have as French to start a sentence,

897
00:40:01.534 --> 00:40:01.769
comma,

898
00:40:01.894 --> 00:40:02.253
bracket,

899
00:40:02.316 --> 00:40:02.675
blah,

900
00:40:03.358 --> 00:40:03.478
No,

901
00:40:03.498 --> 00:40:03.778
I think

902
00:40:06.661 --> 00:40:08.684
I learned a ton in the US with regards to that.

903
00:40:09.141 --> 00:40:14.407
And I learned again and again with the diversity of situations I'm facing every day.

904
00:40:15.587 --> 00:40:30.063
My question behind this is sometimes it's the fact of being too sure about yourself that close you opportunities

905
00:40:30.220 --> 00:40:31.766
or close you from.

906
00:40:32.930 --> 00:40:33.290
I don't know,

907
00:40:33.350 --> 00:40:34.352
maybe future growth.

908
00:40:34.752 --> 00:40:34.871
Yeah.

909
00:40:36.332 --> 00:40:43.719
I feel that you were very opened and you are very open into this kind of situation.

910
00:40:43.922 --> 00:40:44.539
How do you see that?

911
00:40:46.407 --> 00:40:53.422
So then now you're touching another one of the few,

912
00:40:53.750 --> 00:40:54.016
you know,

913
00:40:54.047 --> 00:40:56.735
I have a few sentences that kind of count me.

914
00:40:57.078 --> 00:40:58.532
So that was the necessary departure.

915
00:40:59.032 --> 00:40:59.828
The other one is.

916
00:41:00.698 --> 00:41:02.218
Why should anyone be led by you?

917
00:41:02.538 --> 00:41:04.539
So this is the title of an article that I read

918
00:41:05.417 --> 00:41:06.179
20 years ago.

919
00:41:08.160 --> 00:41:08.601
Rob Goffey.

920
00:41:09.757 --> 00:41:11.281
But they already know it.

921
00:41:13.242 --> 00:41:18.687
But I think it's really a super important question to ask ourselves every day.

922
00:41:19.859 --> 00:41:25.546
And I think if you frame the question like that,

923
00:41:26.359 --> 00:41:28.484
suddenly it's not anymore about yourself.

924
00:41:29.134 --> 00:41:32.818
And I think it becomes much less self-centric.

925
00:41:33.759 --> 00:41:39.587
Because if you consider that the role of the leader is to enable the team,

926
00:41:41.322 --> 00:41:43.111
the role of the leader is not to be kind,

927
00:41:43.112 --> 00:41:44.150
is not to be tough,

928
00:41:44.189 --> 00:41:45.525
is not to be inspirational.

929
00:41:46.212 --> 00:41:50.650
It's to be kind of intentional with regards to what has to be achieved.

930
00:41:52.181 --> 00:41:57.619
And because I've seen it 10 times.

931
00:41:58.614 --> 00:42:00.516
When there is an alchemy in the team,

932
00:42:00.576 --> 00:42:03.879
it's not because people like each other or whatever.

933
00:42:04.379 --> 00:42:05.801
It's because they succeed together.

934
00:42:07.020 --> 00:42:07.301
And

935
00:42:08.121 --> 00:42:13.887
I think if you take this as a kind of the goal,

936
00:42:14.371 --> 00:42:15.949
then suddenly your question becomes,

937
00:42:17.871 --> 00:42:20.371
what does the team need at a given point in time?

938
00:42:21.152 --> 00:42:21.559
To succeed.

939
00:42:21.996 --> 00:42:22.465
To succeed.

940
00:42:23.137 --> 00:42:26.809
So sometimes the team needs vision and inspiration.

941
00:42:27.894 --> 00:42:29.815
Sometimes it's about clarity,

942
00:42:30.116 --> 00:42:31.016
clarity of the rules.

943
00:42:31.718 --> 00:42:33.038
Sometimes it's about teaming,

944
00:42:33.300 --> 00:42:34.362
just creating the trust.

945
00:42:35.702 --> 00:42:36.901
Sometimes it's about support.

946
00:42:37.479 --> 00:42:46.979
And I think if your focus is about what does the team need instead of how should I be,

947
00:42:47.792 --> 00:42:49.995
suddenly it's completely,

948
00:42:50.682 --> 00:42:51.464
it's a complete different.

949
00:42:51.465 --> 00:42:53.386
It was a connection with the others,

950
00:42:53.839 --> 00:42:56.354
but indeed it's the connection between the team.

951
00:42:56.954 --> 00:42:57.134
Yes,

952
00:42:58.054 --> 00:42:58.535
absolutely.

953
00:42:59.115 --> 00:43:05.545
And I think if the role of the leader becomes to be this enabler,

954
00:43:06.240 --> 00:43:06.865
it's not the same.

955
00:43:07.146 --> 00:43:09.607
And you can have some different personalities.

956
00:43:09.646 --> 00:43:10.490
So I've been asked,

957
00:43:10.865 --> 00:43:11.646
are you more captain?

958
00:43:11.670 --> 00:43:12.365
Are you more coach?

959
00:43:12.748 --> 00:43:14.256
I think it doesn't matter in a way.

960
00:43:14.271 --> 00:43:15.771
So,

961
00:43:15.772 --> 00:43:17.615
yeah.

962
00:43:17.616 --> 00:43:17.756
Yes,

963
00:43:17.787 --> 00:43:24.006
but I think this kind of discussion is interesting in this transforming world when we need to...

964
00:43:25.302 --> 00:43:26.883
Maybe invent new connections,

965
00:43:27.264 --> 00:43:28.524
invent new futures,

966
00:43:28.626 --> 00:43:31.770
invent new models of normalities.

967
00:43:32.848 --> 00:43:35.215
It's also something we need.

968
00:43:35.512 --> 00:43:35.911
Absolutely.

969
00:43:36.192 --> 00:43:39.239
And I think you're absolutely,

970
00:43:39.598 --> 00:43:40.497
the more uncertain,

971
00:43:41.153 --> 00:43:41.934
the more complex,

972
00:43:43.075 --> 00:43:44.715
the more we need collective problem solving.

973
00:43:44.794 --> 00:43:45.215
And I think,

974
00:43:45.622 --> 00:43:45.747
yeah,

975
00:43:45.965 --> 00:43:47.465
so collective leadership is the way.

976
00:43:47.762 --> 00:43:48.184
Absolutely.

977
00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:48.762
Okay.

978
00:43:49.106 --> 00:43:49.669
Yeah.

979
00:43:49.670 --> 00:43:49.840
Okay.

980
00:43:49.887 --> 00:43:50.903
You have some tips to share?

981
00:43:53.012 --> 00:43:53.450
Wow.

982
00:43:54.044 --> 00:43:54.169
so

983
00:43:58.806 --> 00:43:59.087
I think,

984
00:43:59.407 --> 00:44:00.325
so there is one,

985
00:44:00.427 --> 00:44:00.946
there is one,

986
00:44:01.009 --> 00:44:02.509
there is one that I was given,

987
00:44:02.548 --> 00:44:05.950
but I think is listening.

988
00:44:06.669 --> 00:44:06.911
Yes,

989
00:44:06.935 --> 00:44:07.974
I've seen it with you.

990
00:44:08.138 --> 00:44:08.333
Yeah.

991
00:44:08.779 --> 00:44:09.138
Listening.

992
00:44:12.154 --> 00:44:23.169
Someone told me that it's a substitute for much more complicated skills that one would necessarily have.

993
00:44:24.278 --> 00:44:26.439
Listening is part of problem solving.

994
00:44:27.102 --> 00:44:28.922
Listening is part of decision making.

995
00:44:29.184 --> 00:44:31.305
Listening is the prerequisite to communicating.

996
00:44:31.727 --> 00:44:34.309
So at least starting with listening.

997
00:44:35.172 --> 00:44:35.853
is the first step.

998
00:44:36.213 --> 00:44:37.414
That would be my humble...

999
00:44:37.415 --> 00:44:37.994
Active listening,

1000
00:44:38.016 --> 00:44:38.135
yeah.

1001
00:44:38.215 --> 00:44:38.375
Yeah,

1002
00:44:38.635 --> 00:44:41.477
that would be my humble answer to this one.

1003
00:44:44.219 --> 00:44:44.485
Okay,

1004
00:44:44.703 --> 00:44:45.500
but yes,

1005
00:44:45.563 --> 00:44:48.422
I would also like to have your idea about...

1006
00:44:48.922 --> 00:44:49.086
Yes,

1007
00:44:49.125 --> 00:44:51.008
because you are listening,

1008
00:44:51.071 --> 00:44:51.625
but for example,

1009
00:44:52.125 --> 00:44:59.375
you accept to come here and to listen to questions and to give also your vision,

1010
00:45:00.594 --> 00:45:01.766
maybe not advice,

1011
00:45:01.844 --> 00:45:03.172
but your vision and...

1012
00:45:03.892 --> 00:45:04.873
to express yourself,

1013
00:45:04.974 --> 00:45:06.876
which is also something you give to,

1014
00:45:07.915 --> 00:45:08.095
yes,

1015
00:45:08.216 --> 00:45:10.497
community or how do you,

1016
00:45:11.880 --> 00:45:12.200
how do you,

1017
00:45:12.560 --> 00:45:14.044
okay,

1018
00:45:14.981 --> 00:45:16.325
how do you give value to that?

1019
00:45:18.763 --> 00:45:20.528
Do you think it's important or do you think?

1020
00:45:20.606 --> 00:45:20.731
Well,

1021
00:45:20.966 --> 00:45:21.794
I think it's critical.

1022
00:45:22.856 --> 00:45:31.278
I think it's critical because learning can only be both ways.

1023
00:45:32.888 --> 00:45:32.997
So

1024
00:45:34.484 --> 00:45:37.488
And it takes to be generous to learn.

1025
00:45:38.546 --> 00:45:38.769
Yes.

1026
00:45:39.507 --> 00:45:39.628
So,

1027
00:45:39.949 --> 00:45:44.992
and I'm going in a complete different direction,

1028
00:45:45.078 --> 00:45:47.960
but it will address your point.

1029
00:45:49.499 --> 00:45:52.601
I feel that one of the risks

1030
00:45:53.679 --> 00:45:54.101
I was,

1031
00:45:54.351 --> 00:45:55.179
or weakness

1032
00:45:55.663 --> 00:45:57.710
I was kind of experiencing,

1033
00:45:57.929 --> 00:45:59.945
particularly when I was in the US,

1034
00:46:00.929 --> 00:46:03.273
is to be completely in a kind of...

1035
00:46:03.984 --> 00:46:08.631
in my close pharma environment outside of the European ecosystem.

1036
00:46:09.650 --> 00:46:12.334
And I felt the need to reconnect with the outside.

1037
00:46:14.037 --> 00:46:14.373
And

1038
00:46:14.771 --> 00:46:17.037
I think to get there,

1039
00:46:18.779 --> 00:46:23.623
it really takes to pick the phone and go to people and to say,

1040
00:46:24.107 --> 00:46:24.310
hey,

1041
00:46:25.185 --> 00:46:25.763
how can I help?

1042
00:46:27.107 --> 00:46:28.013
Could we have a conversation?

1043
00:46:28.092 --> 00:46:28.623
How can I help?

1044
00:46:29.029 --> 00:46:29.482
And that's the...

1045
00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:36.305
That's the way it brought me to this fabulous experience with Resilience,

1046
00:46:37.266 --> 00:46:38.371
meeting Jonathan Benhamou.

1047
00:46:38.809 --> 00:46:46.012
And because I believe that if one come genuinely with this approach of,

1048
00:46:46.114 --> 00:46:46.496
you know what,

1049
00:46:46.903 --> 00:46:50.215
I'm not coming to you with the intent of ticking a box,

1050
00:46:50.684 --> 00:46:51.403
but just to say,

1051
00:46:53.090 --> 00:46:54.387
is there something I could share?

1052
00:46:55.168 --> 00:46:57.324
Then there is always a ton.

1053
00:46:57.828 --> 00:46:58.309
in return,

1054
00:46:58.389 --> 00:46:59.610
even if it's not expected.

1055
00:46:59.951 --> 00:47:02.912
And I think with our situation today,

1056
00:47:04.334 --> 00:47:05.294
this is the same.

1057
00:47:07.681 --> 00:47:09.181
You bring me out of my comfort zone.

1058
00:47:09.416 --> 00:47:10.564
So I think this is a stretch.

1059
00:47:11.181 --> 00:47:13.345
This is a learning experience.

1060
00:47:14.103 --> 00:47:16.994
And I bet that after this conversation,

1061
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:19.525
I will have some conversation with many,

1062
00:47:19.587 --> 00:47:19.791
many,

1063
00:47:20.197 --> 00:47:25.619
many more people that at some point would be interested with the industry or would be interested to do this or to do that.

1064
00:47:26.041 --> 00:47:26.916
So I think that's the way.

1065
00:47:28.060 --> 00:47:31.424
Let's try sometimes to be a bit less short-term,

1066
00:47:31.883 --> 00:47:34.145
a bit less transactional in what we do,

1067
00:47:34.547 --> 00:47:40.891
and believe in the fact that there is just some value in exchanging and opening conversations.

1068
00:47:41.836 --> 00:47:41.993
Yes,

1069
00:47:42.032 --> 00:47:46.055
collective intelligence gives a chance.

1070
00:47:46.274 --> 00:47:47.180
Very interesting indeed.

1071
00:47:49.086 --> 00:47:50.727
I definitely understand,

1072
00:47:50.821 --> 00:47:53.430
and since the first day I started the podcast,

1073
00:47:54.102 --> 00:47:56.743
to understand the value of sharing freely.

1074
00:47:57.016 --> 00:48:04.283
what you really think and what did you learn when you started your experience with the startup resilience?

1075
00:48:06.486 --> 00:48:06.604
Yeah,

1076
00:48:07.166 --> 00:48:07.924
I learned a ton.

1077
00:48:09.986 --> 00:48:10.690
I learned a ton.

1078
00:48:11.432 --> 00:48:12.315
So first of all,

1079
00:48:14.275 --> 00:48:16.869
if we just speak about two seconds,

1080
00:48:17.275 --> 00:48:19.150
because it's not about advertising,

1081
00:48:19.182 --> 00:48:20.400
but what they do,

1082
00:48:20.463 --> 00:48:21.775
this notion of digital health.

1083
00:48:22.963 --> 00:48:25.057
why you can help digital health

1084
00:48:25.564 --> 00:48:26.705
supporting the patients,

1085
00:48:28.067 --> 00:48:30.129
it's kind of obvious that this is the way to go.

1086
00:48:30.391 --> 00:48:36.493
And I think being part of this journey is really something and I'm very excited with what they do.

1087
00:48:38.133 --> 00:48:43.469
But then to your point about comfort zone and these kind of things,

1088
00:48:45.891 --> 00:48:53.938
what the pharma has done amazingly good is the ability to process complicated things.

1089
00:48:54.664 --> 00:49:00.874
to set the guardrails and to set some clear roadmap to progression.

1090
00:49:02.339 --> 00:49:02.960
However,

1091
00:49:04.624 --> 00:49:07.866
when I meet with some terrific leaders like Jonathan Benhamou,

1092
00:49:07.929 --> 00:49:09.530
who is the CEO.

1093
00:49:11.524 --> 00:49:20.877
Sometimes we tend to lose this instinctive approach to opportunities and to things.

1094
00:49:21.573 --> 00:49:23.377
This idea of I don't think about it,

1095
00:49:23.698 --> 00:49:24.276
I do it.

1096
00:49:25.221 --> 00:49:25.635
And

1097
00:49:26.916 --> 00:49:29.159
I will take some very concrete example.

1098
00:49:29.987 --> 00:49:32.424
When someone reaches out from the outside,

1099
00:49:32.752 --> 00:49:33.893
it's very tempting to say,

1100
00:49:33.909 --> 00:49:34.034
OK,

1101
00:49:34.909 --> 00:49:37.784
let me connect my admin and we're going to speak in two weeks from now.

1102
00:49:38.237 --> 00:49:40.190
I think when you speak with someone like Jonathan,

1103
00:49:40.191 --> 00:49:40.315
he's...

1104
00:49:40.956 --> 00:49:41.677
Can we speak tonight?

1105
00:49:42.538 --> 00:49:43.779
And I think this idea of,

1106
00:49:43.780 --> 00:49:43.900
OK,

1107
00:49:44.320 --> 00:49:45.181
I pick my phone.

1108
00:49:45.701 --> 00:49:48.205
We solve the problem in five minutes and we move to something else.

1109
00:49:48.783 --> 00:49:50.709
This is something that is refreshing,

1110
00:49:51.185 --> 00:49:52.365
that keep on the toes.

1111
00:49:52.826 --> 00:49:56.295
And I think that everyone should have this type of opportunity of saying,

1112
00:49:56.296 --> 00:49:56.412
OK.

1113
00:49:56.654 --> 00:49:57.037
In two weeks,

1114
00:49:57.038 --> 00:49:58.677
you have the time to keep the pace.

1115
00:49:58.834 --> 00:50:00.490
To get from 10 times.

1116
00:50:01.271 --> 00:50:01.693
Exactly.

1117
00:50:03.240 --> 00:50:08.021
And I think there is probably something more rough in this environment with the funds,

1118
00:50:08.068 --> 00:50:08.599
the investors.

1119
00:50:08.600 --> 00:50:08.865
So same.

1120
00:50:09.172 --> 00:50:13.358
that we are not always confronted to when we are in bigger companies.

1121
00:50:13.397 --> 00:50:15.698
So I think I see a ton of benefits.

1122
00:50:15.897 --> 00:50:16.741
And I think it both ways,

1123
00:50:16.780 --> 00:50:17.100
by the way.

1124
00:50:17.998 --> 00:50:23.787
Because I think the bigger organization have an ability to clarify,

1125
00:50:23.850 --> 00:50:28.498
to prioritize that sometimes the smaller companies don't have.

1126
00:50:28.499 --> 00:50:29.686
So there is a win-win.

1127
00:50:29.733 --> 00:50:30.873
And I think it goes back to this,

1128
00:50:31.233 --> 00:50:31.733
to your point,

1129
00:50:31.795 --> 00:50:32.233
which is okay,

1130
00:50:32.514 --> 00:50:36.998
let's create the conditions for porosity connections and learn from each other.

1131
00:50:37.123 --> 00:50:37.233
Yes,

1132
00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:37.405
yes,

1133
00:50:37.436 --> 00:50:38.155
because what you say is,

1134
00:50:38.327 --> 00:50:38.514
okay,

1135
00:50:39.216 --> 00:50:40.899
You go out of your comfort zone,

1136
00:50:40.957 --> 00:50:44.203
but you also need some humility,

1137
00:50:44.340 --> 00:50:46.906
respect on both sides to really understand.

1138
00:50:46.907 --> 00:50:47.281
Exactly.

1139
00:50:48.305 --> 00:50:50.930
It takes some intelligence from both sides.

1140
00:50:51.047 --> 00:50:52.071
It's really important.

1141
00:50:52.906 --> 00:50:55.477
To get the best of each other.

1142
00:50:56.617 --> 00:50:56.899
Yes,

1143
00:50:56.961 --> 00:50:57.539
time surprise.

1144
00:50:58.414 --> 00:50:58.617
Yes,

1145
00:50:58.649 --> 00:51:02.196
I would like to go maybe on a few more.

1146
00:51:03.117 --> 00:51:03.242
No,

1147
00:51:03.414 --> 00:51:04.461
just to conclude,

1148
00:51:04.508 --> 00:51:05.305
to finish on this.

1149
00:51:08.152 --> 00:51:10.313
And then this idea of,

1150
00:51:11.415 --> 00:51:11.556
yes,

1151
00:51:11.595 --> 00:51:14.700
to be open and to dare to ask,

1152
00:51:14.817 --> 00:51:15.618
how can I help?

1153
00:51:16.384 --> 00:51:21.767
Is for you a way to be a trusty leader in the pharma world for tomorrow?

1154
00:51:21.782 --> 00:51:22.048
Who?

1155
00:51:27.376 --> 00:51:27.688
Yeah,

1156
00:51:27.689 --> 00:51:28.095
I think.

1157
00:51:28.517 --> 00:51:28.938
In other way,

1158
00:51:28.954 --> 00:51:29.251
I can say,

1159
00:51:29.267 --> 00:51:29.392
OK,

1160
00:51:29.454 --> 00:51:29.876
if I don't.

1161
00:51:30.407 --> 00:51:30.860
Yeah,

1162
00:51:30.861 --> 00:51:30.954
no,

1163
00:51:30.955 --> 00:51:31.079
no.

1164
00:51:31.110 --> 00:51:31.892
But personally,

1165
00:51:31.954 --> 00:51:35.423
but how can how can pharma be more trusted in the future?

1166
00:51:35.424 --> 00:51:35.532
Well.

1167
00:51:37.956 --> 00:51:38.257
So,

1168
00:51:38.936 --> 00:51:39.457
but first of all,

1169
00:51:39.957 --> 00:51:46.301
I think that pharma can be trusted and should be trusted for sure.

1170
00:51:47.316 --> 00:51:47.441
But

1171
00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:48.480
I see your point.

1172
00:51:51.176 --> 00:51:54.207
There is to gain in showing some vulnerabilities.

1173
00:51:54.613 --> 00:51:57.222
There is to gain in opening for the communication.

1174
00:51:58.254 --> 00:51:58.676
Absolutely.

1175
00:51:59.488 --> 00:52:01.019
So if this is where you're going.

1176
00:52:02.097 --> 00:52:02.285
Yes.

1177
00:52:02.363 --> 00:52:04.644
and also I think um good

1178
00:52:05.384 --> 00:52:07.185
I go back to the previous example,

1179
00:52:07.244 --> 00:52:08.925
but also show the strength.

1180
00:52:09.425 --> 00:52:09.964
Yeah.

1181
00:52:10.085 --> 00:52:10.206
Yeah,

1182
00:52:10.386 --> 00:52:10.604
clearly,

1183
00:52:10.847 --> 00:52:11.065
clearly,

1184
00:52:11.245 --> 00:52:11.487
clearly.

1185
00:52:13.784 --> 00:52:21.284
And I think it goes back to the definition of leadership that I was touching.

1186
00:52:25.690 --> 00:52:26.706
It's not one trick pony.

1187
00:52:27.722 --> 00:52:30.315
Sometimes it's about showing confidence.

1188
00:52:30.612 --> 00:52:33.065
Sometimes it's about adding value.

1189
00:52:33.512 --> 00:52:35.955
Sometimes it's about bringing some clarity.

1190
00:52:36.676 --> 00:52:39.576
And so that's about what you were saying about showing strength.

1191
00:52:40.080 --> 00:52:43.740
And sometimes it's about showing more vulnerability.

1192
00:52:43.803 --> 00:52:45.381
So I think the answer is,

1193
00:52:45.443 --> 00:52:45.881
as usual,

1194
00:52:46.068 --> 00:52:46.647
it depends.

1195
00:52:47.068 --> 00:52:48.943
It depends on what has to be done to succeed.

1196
00:52:49.568 --> 00:52:49.787
Yes.

1197
00:52:54.147 --> 00:52:55.272
But in a changing world.

1198
00:52:56.334 --> 00:52:59.053
So in a changing world.

1199
00:52:59.054 --> 00:52:59.772
In a changing world.

1200
00:53:00.352 --> 00:53:00.973
It's more complex.

1201
00:53:01.214 --> 00:53:01.433
Yes.

1202
00:53:01.614 --> 00:53:02.134
It's more collective.

1203
00:53:02.135 --> 00:53:02.634
And as you say,

1204
00:53:02.694 --> 00:53:10.223
maybe what you are developing in your relation with a startup is also maybe a way to be connected with reality.

1205
00:53:10.466 --> 00:53:10.762
Exactly.

1206
00:53:10.841 --> 00:53:14.348
And what I see now,

1207
00:53:14.442 --> 00:53:16.770
you're bringing me in a completely different space.

1208
00:53:17.411 --> 00:53:22.052
But when I'm on the big topics of prevention agenda or whatever,

1209
00:53:25.130 --> 00:53:29.786
it is clear that the answer is not with one stakeholder.

1210
00:53:30.660 --> 00:53:32.763
The answer is multipolar.

1211
00:53:33.142 --> 00:53:37.447
And so the ability to operate in an ecosystem,

1212
00:53:37.908 --> 00:53:39.650
to operate in a coalition,

1213
00:53:40.510 --> 00:53:40.931
obviously,

1214
00:53:41.174 --> 00:53:42.752
this is a key success factor for the future.

1215
00:53:43.611 --> 00:53:43.791
Okay.

1216
00:53:44.353 --> 00:53:50.916
And if I just try to summarize a bit and go maybe into more personal vulnerability,

1217
00:53:52.728 --> 00:53:56.588
then the key factors for a leader tomorrow in this world,

1218
00:53:57.353 --> 00:53:59.306
in the pharma world or maybe healthcare world,

1219
00:54:00.156 --> 00:54:10.870
is this being opened so um i would say

1220
00:54:12.284 --> 00:54:14.186
clearly providing,

1221
00:54:16.790 --> 00:54:20.794
let's not underestimate the fundamentals of leadership.

1222
00:54:22.833 --> 00:54:27.137
The need to provide some clarity is probably more important than ever.

1223
00:54:28.059 --> 00:54:32.778
So I think this idea of bringing some vision,

1224
00:54:33.700 --> 00:54:35.169
bringing some clear priorities,

1225
00:54:35.606 --> 00:54:35.903
I think...

1226
00:54:36.156 --> 00:54:38.379
has been part of the leadership 1.0,

1227
00:54:39.100 --> 00:54:43.963
it's going to be part big time of the future of leadership.

1228
00:54:45.123 --> 00:54:45.607
And now,

1229
00:54:45.982 --> 00:54:52.029
if we were just speaking about towards more collective leadership,

1230
00:54:53.045 --> 00:54:59.404
I think it's going to be about considering leadership not as kind of one tool,

1231
00:54:59.686 --> 00:55:00.467
but as a toolbox.

1232
00:55:01.295 --> 00:55:04.561
So this idea of being probably more situational.

1233
00:55:07.112 --> 00:55:10.073
to be very deliberate according to the situation.

1234
00:55:10.772 --> 00:55:11.813
And at the same time,

1235
00:55:12.274 --> 00:55:12.692
to keep,

1236
00:55:12.993 --> 00:55:20.595
to develop this kind of authenticity so that the connection remains at the most is probably a way to go.

1237
00:55:20.618 --> 00:55:21.212
Okay.

1238
00:55:21.352 --> 00:55:21.556
Okay.

1239
00:55:22.274 --> 00:55:22.477
Yes.

1240
00:55:22.657 --> 00:55:25.079
Separate both items.

1241
00:55:25.235 --> 00:55:27.329
And if I maybe,

1242
00:55:28.657 --> 00:55:28.829
yes,

1243
00:55:28.830 --> 00:55:29.470
I have in mind,

1244
00:55:29.892 --> 00:55:32.204
there's a situation where you need to...

1245
00:55:33.288 --> 00:55:37.132
I understand the society also and societal needs.

1246
00:55:38.974 --> 00:55:40.314
And you talked about clarity.

1247
00:55:40.696 --> 00:55:42.060
Sometimes we can say,

1248
00:55:42.099 --> 00:55:42.216
OK,

1249
00:55:42.638 --> 00:55:50.099
it's not the job of the company to take into account these parameters of the society needs,

1250
00:55:50.177 --> 00:55:52.646
of the limitations,

1251
00:55:52.693 --> 00:55:59.411
because we want to act as a company outside of internal games.

1252
00:56:00.021 --> 00:56:02.302
But how do you feel that?

1253
00:56:02.972 --> 00:56:05.415
How do you look at that?

1254
00:56:05.416 --> 00:56:10.278
So I think a company is part of an ecosystem.

1255
00:56:10.618 --> 00:56:16.122
So I don't see how we can operate in isolation of the ecosystem.

1256
00:56:16.263 --> 00:56:18.224
I really don't see it.

1257
00:56:19.888 --> 00:56:21.169
And at the same time,

1258
00:56:22.919 --> 00:56:25.669
the objective is to stay focused on the mission.

1259
00:56:26.091 --> 00:56:29.825
And I think this is something I experience every day.

1260
00:56:30.096 --> 00:56:33.119
Regardless of the political consideration around,

1261
00:56:33.779 --> 00:56:36.883
what I keep saying to our teams is,

1262
00:56:37.504 --> 00:56:37.703
yes,

1263
00:56:37.762 --> 00:56:38.926
it's challenging around.

1264
00:56:39.746 --> 00:56:40.645
But at the same time,

1265
00:56:41.285 --> 00:56:43.152
if we focus on our mission,

1266
00:56:43.426 --> 00:56:45.129
which is to make our innovation accessible,

1267
00:56:45.715 --> 00:56:46.606
then we are in the right.

1268
00:56:46.934 --> 00:56:47.106
Okay.

1269
00:56:47.137 --> 00:56:47.512
In the end,

1270
00:56:47.574 --> 00:56:51.293
we would win and we would contribute.

1271
00:56:51.981 --> 00:56:52.277
Exactly.

1272
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:54.418
More than winning is we impact,

1273
00:56:54.496 --> 00:56:55.059
we're in the right.

1274
00:56:55.387 --> 00:56:56.621
This is what brings us together.

1275
00:56:56.965 --> 00:56:58.199
We've been doing that in the past.

1276
00:56:58.262 --> 00:56:59.402
We'll be doing that in the future.

1277
00:57:00.544 --> 00:57:01.445
Okay.

1278
00:57:01.446 --> 00:57:02.045
And yes,

1279
00:57:02.266 --> 00:57:04.408
the help of partnerships or the help of...

1280
00:57:05.367 --> 00:57:05.828
Absolutely.

1281
00:57:05.891 --> 00:57:06.668
Can be something...

1282
00:57:06.989 --> 00:57:07.410
Definitely.

1283
00:57:07.852 --> 00:57:08.250
Definitely.

1284
00:57:08.473 --> 00:57:09.371
I think this is the future.

1285
00:57:09.372 --> 00:57:09.856
Do you think?

1286
00:57:09.996 --> 00:57:10.153
Okay.

1287
00:57:10.574 --> 00:57:11.035
Yeah.

1288
00:57:11.473 --> 00:57:11.715
Okay.

1289
00:57:13.457 --> 00:57:16.223
I would like to have one word maybe,

1290
00:57:17.457 --> 00:57:19.676
because I have one way to define you is,

1291
00:57:20.317 --> 00:57:20.489
yes,

1292
00:57:20.504 --> 00:57:21.942
you have maybe a brutal honesty,

1293
00:57:22.067 --> 00:57:22.739
but you respect.

1294
00:57:23.223 --> 00:57:23.770
Yeah.

1295
00:57:24.364 --> 00:57:25.848
And is it true?

1296
00:57:25.926 --> 00:57:26.567
Is it something...

1297
00:57:27.504 --> 00:57:27.707
Well,

1298
00:57:27.770 --> 00:57:27.895
so...

1299
00:57:31.191 --> 00:57:31.489
Yeah,

1300
00:57:31.610 --> 00:57:33.794
so this notion of to be brutally honest,

1301
00:57:34.634 --> 00:57:36.056
this is something I've been...

1302
00:57:36.275 --> 00:57:37.255
You go back to the risks.

1303
00:57:37.575 --> 00:57:38.677
I've been using as words,

1304
00:57:38.755 --> 00:57:38.935
but

1305
00:57:44.646 --> 00:57:45.224
I prefer...

1306
00:57:45.771 --> 00:57:46.802
So the notion of...

1307
00:57:47.974 --> 00:57:48.083
No,

1308
00:57:48.239 --> 00:57:51.286
if I go in the direction of risk,

1309
00:57:52.005 --> 00:57:53.427
I prefer the notion of being bold.

1310
00:57:53.864 --> 00:57:54.771
Bold is exciting.

1311
00:57:54.772 --> 00:57:56.568
Okay.

1312
00:57:56.569 --> 00:57:57.755
I prefer being bold than...

1313
00:57:58.412 --> 00:57:58.592
Okay,

1314
00:57:58.752 --> 00:57:59.012
risk,

1315
00:57:59.172 --> 00:57:59.472
risk,

1316
00:57:59.933 --> 00:58:00.473
risk of failure,

1317
00:58:00.474 --> 00:58:00.772
whatever.

1318
00:58:01.354 --> 00:58:02.352
So definitely,

1319
00:58:02.395 --> 00:58:03.813
I think that's the first one.

1320
00:58:04.973 --> 00:58:09.953
And I prefer the notion of clarity to brutally honest.

1321
00:58:10.492 --> 00:58:15.813
I think and this is probably something that is being shaped over time with experience.

1322
00:58:16.453 --> 00:58:19.203
When one has probably less confidence,

1323
00:58:19.719 --> 00:58:23.657
there is a tendency to mix the two that you have to be tough to be strong.

1324
00:58:24.860 --> 00:58:25.625
I don't believe in two.

1325
00:58:26.203 --> 00:58:26.500
I think

1326
00:58:26.920 --> 00:58:28.662
I'm distancing a little bit from that.

1327
00:58:29.384 --> 00:58:32.407
And being clear is helpful.

1328
00:58:32.786 --> 00:58:32.946
Yeah,

1329
00:58:32.947 --> 00:58:33.247
and bold.

1330
00:58:33.325 --> 00:58:33.567
Okay,

1331
00:58:33.688 --> 00:58:33.868
okay,

1332
00:58:33.966 --> 00:58:34.907
okay.

1333
00:58:34.930 --> 00:58:35.149
Okay,

1334
00:58:35.150 --> 00:58:35.532
it's also,

1335
00:58:36.126 --> 00:58:36.368
yes,

1336
00:58:36.626 --> 00:58:41.134
a way to use the right words to help also,

1337
00:58:41.352 --> 00:58:42.274
yes,

1338
00:58:45.204 --> 00:58:49.423
to define themselves and to find a way to be able to transform,

1339
00:58:49.798 --> 00:58:50.610
to change the lines,

1340
00:58:50.611 --> 00:58:51.298
to push the lines,

1341
00:58:51.720 --> 00:58:52.829
but still in...

1342
00:58:53.636 --> 00:58:53.816
Yes,

1343
00:58:53.856 --> 00:58:54.397
with respect.

1344
00:58:54.457 --> 00:58:54.577
No,

1345
00:58:54.598 --> 00:58:55.578
because when you are brutal,

1346
00:58:55.617 --> 00:58:56.199
you're on the people.

1347
00:58:56.258 --> 00:58:56.859
When you are clear,

1348
00:58:56.959 --> 00:58:57.539
you're on the task.

1349
00:58:57.602 --> 00:59:00.281
And I think that's the very simple definition.

1350
00:59:01.527 --> 00:59:01.707
Okay.

1351
00:59:01.746 --> 00:59:02.106
Distinction.

1352
00:59:02.348 --> 00:59:04.926
Do you want to share some personal values?

1353
00:59:05.231 --> 00:59:05.449
Wow.

1354
00:59:07.473 --> 00:59:08.754
Some personal values,

1355
00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:10.777
curiosity,

1356
00:59:11.746 --> 00:59:12.277
big time,

1357
00:59:14.074 --> 00:59:14.762
generosity,

1358
00:59:15.324 --> 00:59:17.152
and a certain will to do good,

1359
00:59:17.652 --> 00:59:18.699
to have some positive impact.

1360
00:59:18.965 --> 00:59:19.387
Definitely.

1361
00:59:20.245 --> 00:59:20.585
Cool.

1362
00:59:20.745 --> 00:59:21.025
Thank you,

1363
00:59:21.285 --> 00:59:21.525
Marc.

1364
00:59:21.765 --> 00:59:22.185
Thank you.

1365
00:59:22.325 --> 00:59:22.546
Thank you,

1366
00:59:22.547 --> 00:59:23.266
Natalie.

1367
00:59:23.526 --> 00:59:23.825
Thank you.

1368
00:59:23.905 --> 00:59:24.245
It was,

1369
00:59:24.987 --> 00:59:25.167
yes,

1370
00:59:25.366 --> 00:59:25.628
for me,

1371
00:59:25.706 --> 00:59:30.690
very interesting and intense to have your perspective.

1372
00:59:31.026 --> 00:59:33.510
And yes,

1373
00:59:33.550 --> 00:59:37.292
I think a bold way to define a former leader.

1374
00:59:37.964 --> 00:59:38.089
Yeah,

1375
00:59:38.276 --> 00:59:38.589
pleasure.

1376
00:59:38.667 --> 00:59:39.182
Thank you very much,

1377
00:59:39.229 --> 00:59:39.542
Natalie.

1378
00:59:40.026 --> 00:59:43.823
Thanks again for what you're doing and happy to keep supporting the journey.

1379
00:59:44.307 --> 00:59:46.589
Thank you for listening to this episode.

1380
00:59:46.853 --> 00:59:49.256
It was great to share this story about connection,

1381
00:59:49.375 --> 00:59:52.297
inspiration and creating a positive legacy.

1382
00:59:52.578 --> 00:59:57.363
Don't forget to subscribe to stay updated on future episodes and talk to you soon.

1383
00:59:57.746 --> 00:59:58.183
A bientôt.