"Executing differently takes courage" (3/5) - Trusting the ground : navigating volatility, growth and partnerships across the EEMEA zone

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Mark Gallardoux is the third episode of this mini-series because he's the one who speaks best about what execution requires when the context doesn't stabilize,

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when we can't wait for conditions to be met to act.

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After Vincent,

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who maintains a long-term plan,

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after Guillaume,

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who showed us how we constantly reinvent within a system,

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Mark asks us a slightly different question.

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What do we do when the ground is unstable,

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when information is constantly incomplete?

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And when waiting,

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in fact,

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costs more than acting.

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His answer is ultimately very simple.

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We trust the ground,

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we move forward,

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and we accept that certain departures,

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whether people,

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directions,

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or projects,

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certain stops,

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are necessary to execute with integrity.

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What's the biggest risk in life?

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The biggest risk is not to achieve your purpose.

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People tell me to be cautious,

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but I've been cautious since I was born.

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And I think that says it all.

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I think...

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What you will find into these markets is the appetite,

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the call to project in the future,

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because today is difficult,

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tomorrow is going to be better,

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and we build a better.

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And I think this is sometimes that what we may have lost is this idea that tomorrow will be better and we should do tomorrow better than today,

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and that maybe there is more risk in maintaining than in trying something.

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When you're brutal,

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you attack the person.

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When you're clear,

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you're focused on the task.

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Welcome to PharmaMinds,

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in a world where risks define progress and not taking risks also defines sometimes the enemy of progress.

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I'm really happy with today's guest.

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I am with Marc Gailhardou.

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Hello,

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Marc.

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Hi,

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Nathalie.

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Thanks for having me.

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I'm very happy to have you here because I think your leadership career and yes,

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the path you've taken in the pharma industry will help us understand this shift between local and global and maybe understand a bit what's moving and how we can look at this changing world.

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I'm really happy to have you here.

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Glad for the conversation and thanks for the nice framing.

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Mark,

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you're responsible for the EMEA zone for MSD today,

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and you are also part of the board of a startup named the Resilience in Oncology.

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We'll talk about,

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yes,

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local leadership and also global leadership,

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but perhaps we'll also find a way to define what it means to be a new leader in this world.

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I would like to start with your journey,

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how you started.

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Maybe you can try to explain,

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perhaps with a specific example,

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how this alternating between local and global roles actually helps your leadership.

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Okay.

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Thank you very much,

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Nathalie.

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And before starting,

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going into the weeds of my career,

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maybe just a few words to say that

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I think I'm pretty representative of your audience,

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meaning people driven to make an impact in making innovation accessible.

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So I think,

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and around that,

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I feel that pharma is clearly a good way,

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a career in pharma is really a good way to get there.

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And like I said,

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we'll speak a lot about me,

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but my first consideration is that in everything we'll be saying,

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this is a team sport.

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This is a team sport.

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And so I take the opportunity to really thank my colleagues,

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the team I've been working with,

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and all the ones who have been supporting my family,

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the close ones,

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the mentors.

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So I think this is important to say.

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So with regards to my career,

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maybe just one or two words about the region itself.

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EEA,

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so Eastern Europe,

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Middle East,

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Africa.

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This is something like 25%

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of the world population.

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This is hyper-diverse as a region because we have some of the poorest countries in the world to some of the wealthiest countries in the world if we take the Gulf.

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This is a region very heterogeneous.

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This is a region that is volatile,

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that has some challenges when we think about all the wars that are going throughout the region.

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And I would like to say a word for all the people who are going through that because those are real challenges.

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But if we take the flip side of that,

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it's really a region that is fascinating because this is a region that has a soul,

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I would say.

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If you consider all the great civilizations that built this region,

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it has some amazing values in terms of generosity and hospitality.

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And there is a word that I'm not a big fan of.

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We often speak about emerging markets.

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I would very much consider the region a high growth market.

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And if we look at it that way,

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I think it creates a connection with the discussion we will have about the ability to be quite bold from a strategic standpoint and to be very focused on execution.

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So there is a lot to be done in terms of addressing the needs.

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If we start with the purpose,

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there are many unmet needs,

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but also from a business standpoint.

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So yes,

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this is what my current job is all about.

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And I think I'm excited every day about it.

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Yes.

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And okay,

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then I will jump in.

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I will make the connection to your previous job.

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To go back to your zone,

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E-E-M-E-A.

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Yes.

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What it is to lead in a high growth market.

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Yes.

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And who...

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are the truly powerful figures,

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the leading pioneers of innovation in this area.

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Why are they so open and receptive to innovation?

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So

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I'll begin right from the very start regarding what it is actually like to lead such an important area.

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And let's not underestimate the significant geopolitical challenges,

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as well as the real situation of the people living there.

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Because,

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as I said,

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in my region,

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I have both Ukraine and Russia.

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I also cover the Middle East.

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So the very first thing you think about when you wake up in the morning is how to make sure that all the employees are safe and secure wherever they are in the region.

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Their safety is always the top priority.

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And second,

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how we deliver on the company's mission in a responsible and compliant manner.

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So I think it's hyper important to say it because that occupies a good part of a leader's brain.

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And these are sometimes things that,

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quite honestly,

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we tend to take for granted in other areas of the world where circumstances and expectations can be very different.

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Now,

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if I turn to your question about how I maximize,

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how I operate and how I approach these challenges,

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I will be a bit traditional.

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saying this,

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but it really starts with understanding the needs,

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truly grasping what is genuinely required.

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And when I say understanding the needs,

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I mean that the ranking of priorities,

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the order in which things are considered important,

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isn't always the same everywhere.

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And it can shift depending on the context,

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the people involved,

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and the specific situation at hand.

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And this is where you will have different approaches to prevention versus treatment,

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to affordable treatment versus highly innovative ones.

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And this is our job.

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on one hand,

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to align with the priorities of our external stakeholders,

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and at the same time,

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to be extremely creative in the solutions we provide.

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And I'm proud of the teams with regards to that.

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But I think if I go one level further,

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what I find really interesting and might be a difference coming back to some of your questions around Europe,

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US,

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etc.

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These markets are hyper volatile for sure,

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but the underlying trajectory is growth.

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And I think

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If you take this type of hypothesis,

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then it all becomes,

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what do I do?

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What should we do to capture this growth and to maximize this growth?

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And I think that really gives some possibilities that you wouldn't find in more established markets in being very bold in terms of what are the partnerships we could do with the authorities,

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how we can plan for long term.

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And at the same time,

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how are we super disciplined so that we progress on a day-to-day basis?

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So I think I'm coming back to your question.

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Probably more rooms to maneuver than in established environments.

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Yes.

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Even if you don't have the stability with you,

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even if you don't maybe have

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Exactly. the vision or less vision.

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And this is why I think it's super interesting,

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super tricky from an extent point,

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because it's on one side,

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it takes to be bold on the strategic aspect,

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because this is what the environment wants.

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Yes.

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Because the stakeholders want to build their infrastructure,

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they want to raise their standard of care.

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It's not marginal improvement like in some other areas.

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So it has to be bold.

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But at the same time,

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what are the guardrails that we put from a day-to-day basis to progress in that direction?

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Fascinating.

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I can imagine.

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But if I look maybe to more developed market,

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more stable market,

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maybe.

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And maybe you have something in mind about this,

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but maybe they can get inspiration also about maybe this kind of way of thinking we've lost or we don't need like urgently.

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But it would be useful maybe.

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So you bring me...

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in the direction of how I look about mature markets or how I look at about Europe.

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So let me give you a very concrete example.

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It was last week,

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I had a partner coming from Lebanon,

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and he was speaking about the business risk in Middle East and all of that.

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And he was using this quote,

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which is nice,

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but bittersweet.

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He was saying,

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you know what,

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people tell me to be cautious,

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but I've been cautious since I was born.

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And I think that says it all.

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I think what you will find into these markets is the appetite.

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the call to project in the future,

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because today is difficult.

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Tomorrow is going to be better,

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and we build a better.

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And I think this is sometimes that what we may have lost is this idea that tomorrow will be better,

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and we should do tomorrow better than today,

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and that maybe there is more risk in maintaining than in trying something.

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So I think that there might,

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and this is not something I take from Europe,

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this is more something I take from the emerging markets,

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where I see this continuous projection.

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The second element I would take you

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And it's probably a bit more aspirational,

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philosophical,

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but I'm coming back to this situation of war that my teams have been experiencing throughout the region.

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What I've been finding truly fascinating is how people still go to the office and manage to find their sense of purpose,

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even when everything around them seems to be going wrong.

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They show up for work,

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stay on the job and keep going despite all the challenges.

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And to say to themselves,

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to say to each other,

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this is truly where we can actually do something.

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where we can make a real difference.

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But like I said,

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Let's not underestimate the role that companies,

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that the enterprise can play in bringing people together in challenging times.

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And by the way,

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this is something that we've seen at the time of COVID,

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where everyone was isolated.

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And the only thing that was bringing people together was to be behind the screen and kind of,

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and I think what I see around that is that regardless of all the differences of perspective that you would find in a region what makes that

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People impact together.

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Work together is the purpose,

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but also the values and the way of working that the company said.

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I would like to talk about your career,

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about staying sharp in your career,

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00:10:38.715 --> 00:10:42.418
because you said you have made you have truly made some bold and courageous moves.

262
00:10:42.818 --> 00:10:44.559
And you did not follow the I don't know,

263
00:10:44.599 --> 00:10:46.620
maybe the expected moves or the comfortable,

264
00:10:46.621 --> 00:10:47.101
the safe,

265
00:10:47.121 --> 00:10:49.542
the easy move or just the next logical step.

266
00:10:50.303 --> 00:10:52.344
You chose instead to take a different path.

267
00:10:52.680 --> 00:10:54.701
One that was not necessarily the obvious one,

268
00:10:54.741 --> 00:10:58.823
but one that required real courage and a willingness to step outside your comfort zone.

269
00:10:59.424 --> 00:10:59.804
You've made,

270
00:10:59.824 --> 00:11:00.264
like you said,

271
00:11:00.284 --> 00:11:01.285
like the two extremes.

272
00:11:01.805 --> 00:11:01.945
Yeah.

273
00:11:02.365 --> 00:11:05.907
And I think what you're trying to touch is what drives the transition,

274
00:11:06.027 --> 00:11:07.168
how we build a career,

275
00:11:07.868 --> 00:11:08.689
these type of things,

276
00:11:08.749 --> 00:11:09.769
and how much risk.

277
00:11:10.510 --> 00:11:13.411
I think this is where you're coming back to this notion of risk.

278
00:11:13.831 --> 00:11:18.254
So first thing to say is that a career should be looked from a long run perspective.

279
00:11:18.754 --> 00:11:19.515
So it's a marathon.

280
00:11:20.295 --> 00:11:20.435
Yes,

281
00:11:20.495 --> 00:11:20.675
yes.

282
00:11:20.975 --> 00:11:21.556
It's a marathon,

283
00:11:21.576 --> 00:11:22.116
not a sprint.

284
00:11:22.484 --> 00:11:22.724
Yes.

285
00:11:22.824 --> 00:11:23.345
And it's just,

286
00:11:23.405 --> 00:11:23.705
I like,

287
00:11:23.765 --> 00:11:23.925
yes,

288
00:11:23.965 --> 00:11:24.566
it's interesting.

289
00:11:24.926 --> 00:11:26.828
You say that risk is part of a marathon.

290
00:11:27.589 --> 00:11:27.989
Exactly.

291
00:11:28.309 --> 00:11:30.071
And can be part of a marathon.

292
00:11:30.651 --> 00:11:31.032
Exactly.

293
00:11:31.592 --> 00:11:33.654
So it should be looked from a long-term perspective.

294
00:11:34.174 --> 00:11:34.595
And if,

295
00:11:35.195 --> 00:11:37.317
I don't know if it works with your marathon analogy,

296
00:11:37.737 --> 00:11:41.761
but one should be clear about the fact that there are some times for acceleration,

297
00:11:42.261 --> 00:11:45.544
but there are tons of time for kind of consolidation,

298
00:11:46.145 --> 00:11:46.605
management,

299
00:11:46.685 --> 00:11:47.146
passions,

300
00:11:47.226 --> 00:11:47.806
resilience.

301
00:11:48.226 --> 00:11:49.868
So I think that's really the way I take it.

302
00:11:50.328 --> 00:11:51.489
With regards to the risk-taking,

303
00:11:51.569 --> 00:11:53.811
since we are actually going there during the transition,

304
00:11:54.531 --> 00:11:57.474
we should be mindful of any possible challenges that could arise.

305
00:11:57.834 --> 00:11:59.195
So let me quote you a podcast,

306
00:11:59.215 --> 00:11:59.896
a recent one,

307
00:12:00.556 --> 00:12:01.177
Charles Pepin.

308
00:12:01.457 --> 00:12:02.298
He was speaking about,

309
00:12:02.398 --> 00:12:03.179
should we take risk?

310
00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:04.820
And he was asking about,

311
00:12:05.380 --> 00:12:06.621
what's the biggest risk in life?

312
00:12:07.162 --> 00:12:11.505
And I think he was describing that basically the biggest risk is not to achieve your purpose.

313
00:12:11.846 --> 00:12:12.726
Not to lose something.

314
00:12:13.447 --> 00:12:13.827
Exactly,

315
00:12:13.887 --> 00:12:14.268
exactly.

316
00:12:14.808 --> 00:12:15.829
If you take it like that,

317
00:12:15.989 --> 00:12:19.592
I think there is more risk in not trying anything than trying something.

318
00:12:20.100 --> 00:12:22.161
And if you have this type of angle from there,

319
00:12:22.401 --> 00:12:24.442
it doesn't look so risky to try some new things.

320
00:12:24.982 --> 00:12:25.102
So

321
00:12:26.043 --> 00:12:31.365
I think that is probably one particular angle that I would really like to take when looking at the transition.

322
00:12:31.885 --> 00:12:36.707
And the other one is probably something that is more deeply embedded in an internal DNA,

323
00:12:37.428 --> 00:12:38.168
or perhaps not,

324
00:12:38.328 --> 00:12:40.469
which is really about the question of how long to stay.

325
00:12:41.029 --> 00:12:41.509
In the game?

326
00:12:41.809 --> 00:12:43.030
In the game or just somewhere.

327
00:12:43.550 --> 00:12:45.691
And this is something that I truly have deep within me,

328
00:12:46.031 --> 00:12:47.392
something that I feel very strongly.

329
00:12:47.788 --> 00:12:51.550
which is that at some point there is inevitably a necessary departure.

330
00:12:52.090 --> 00:12:52.290
Okay,

331
00:12:52.430 --> 00:12:52.570
yeah.

332
00:12:53.030 --> 00:12:54.071
And so it doesn't come from me,

333
00:12:54.111 --> 00:12:54.451
this one,

334
00:12:54.491 --> 00:12:54.991
but it does.

335
00:12:55.551 --> 00:12:57.632
I think it's from Delphine Orvilleur.

336
00:12:58.193 --> 00:12:59.053
She speaks about that.

337
00:12:59.613 --> 00:13:00.794
And since I've heard that,

338
00:13:00.854 --> 00:13:02.815
this is something that is really deeply into me,

339
00:13:03.495 --> 00:13:06.496
is the fact that at some point you have to push yourself.

340
00:13:07.157 --> 00:13:08.017
Nothing is forever.

341
00:13:08.657 --> 00:13:09.057
Exactly,

342
00:13:09.097 --> 00:13:09.438
exactly.

343
00:13:10.078 --> 00:13:10.358
You said,

344
00:13:10.398 --> 00:13:10.538
okay,

345
00:13:10.598 --> 00:13:12.139
sometimes it's not made for everyone.

346
00:13:12.779 --> 00:13:12.999
Yes.

347
00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:13.779
Yes,

348
00:13:13.819 --> 00:13:14.760
but nothing is forever.

349
00:13:15.460 --> 00:13:18.121
But I think this is where I'm going to this type of conclusion,

350
00:13:18.382 --> 00:13:20.903
which is that it's more positive to transition than not.

351
00:13:21.483 --> 00:13:24.545
Because if you take on one side that nothing is forever,

352
00:13:24.705 --> 00:13:25.465
and on top of that,

353
00:13:25.886 --> 00:13:29.087
that it's only by going forward that you go towards your purpose.

354
00:13:29.628 --> 00:13:31.889
I think there are more incentives to move.

355
00:13:32.209 --> 00:13:32.990
But if you add,

356
00:13:33.250 --> 00:13:33.530
okay,

357
00:13:33.690 --> 00:13:34.590
I'm afraid of losing,

358
00:13:34.610 --> 00:13:35.031
I don't know,

359
00:13:35.711 --> 00:13:36.772
my status or whatever,

360
00:13:36.792 --> 00:13:37.312
my salary,

361
00:13:37.392 --> 00:13:37.532
my...

362
00:13:38.092 --> 00:13:38.733
But that's the point.

363
00:13:38.973 --> 00:13:39.713
Is it the right thing?

364
00:13:40.374 --> 00:13:41.634
Is it the right thing to consider?

365
00:13:41.874 --> 00:13:42.875
Or is there something bigger?

366
00:13:43.435 --> 00:13:44.636
And I think there is something bigger.

367
00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:47.882
If we say my goal is to maximize my impact,

368
00:13:48.082 --> 00:13:48.942
to make innovation,

369
00:13:49.382 --> 00:13:50.583
and if I just do it there,

370
00:13:51.183 --> 00:13:52.644
where I could do it 10 times bigger,

371
00:13:53.145 --> 00:13:53.985
if I try something,

372
00:13:54.405 --> 00:13:56.567
then suddenly that gives an opportunity to project.

373
00:13:57.087 --> 00:13:57.847
And then what you do,

374
00:13:58.588 --> 00:14:00.329
you just go in the direction of your goal?

375
00:14:00.929 --> 00:14:01.369
But I think,

376
00:14:01.609 --> 00:14:02.730
let's be honest about that,

377
00:14:03.250 --> 00:14:04.371
it never happens as planned.

378
00:14:04.671 --> 00:14:04.891
Yes.

379
00:14:05.071 --> 00:14:06.012
That's yes and no.

380
00:14:06.392 --> 00:14:08.213
So let me elaborate on that for two seconds.

381
00:14:09.254 --> 00:14:11.355
So I was managing director and then the plan was,

382
00:14:11.755 --> 00:14:11.955
okay,

383
00:14:12.015 --> 00:14:12.276
Mark,

384
00:14:12.396 --> 00:14:12.716
you will...

385
00:14:13.464 --> 00:14:15.265
You've never been into the MSD headquarters.

386
00:14:15.745 --> 00:14:16.865
You've never been in oncology.

387
00:14:17.366 --> 00:14:20.147
So let's do a rotation in oncology.

388
00:14:20.507 --> 00:14:21.227
So I started,

389
00:14:21.627 --> 00:14:23.148
I did this great job in strategy,

390
00:14:23.888 --> 00:14:24.709
but then after that,

391
00:14:24.749 --> 00:14:28.210
it didn't happen as planned because there has been some management rotation.

392
00:14:28.790 --> 00:14:30.571
And then I had to do a second job in onco,

393
00:14:31.131 --> 00:14:31.972
a third job in onco.

394
00:14:32.572 --> 00:14:34.193
And then it really tests your resilience,

395
00:14:34.233 --> 00:14:35.373
your ability to go deeper,

396
00:14:35.393 --> 00:14:36.493
to adjust your plans.

397
00:14:37.054 --> 00:14:38.014
And then after that,

398
00:14:38.114 --> 00:14:39.555
was it planned to take this region?

399
00:14:40.095 --> 00:14:40.835
Not necessarily.

400
00:14:41.315 --> 00:14:42.536
There were some ideas.

401
00:14:43.096 --> 00:14:45.437
But I think the reading is pretty clear for me.

402
00:14:46.058 --> 00:14:47.478
If it fits with a bigger plan,

403
00:14:47.898 --> 00:14:48.819
if the guts feel it,

404
00:14:48.839 --> 00:14:49.199
I think.

405
00:14:49.739 --> 00:14:51.860
And I think I'm touching a super important point,

406
00:14:51.941 --> 00:14:52.681
which is at the end,

407
00:14:53.241 --> 00:14:54.642
we can give whatever advice,

408
00:14:54.702 --> 00:14:55.802
but this is in the guts.

409
00:14:56.343 --> 00:14:57.443
And if there is this click,

410
00:14:57.783 --> 00:14:58.704
then it's going to be good.

411
00:14:59.378 --> 00:14:59.538
Yes.

412
00:14:59.918 --> 00:15:02.040
And maybe like the meeting with the right person,

413
00:15:02.041 --> 00:15:02.680
the right people.

414
00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:03.500
Exactly.

415
00:15:04.181 --> 00:15:05.021
It's about connection,

416
00:15:05.381 --> 00:15:06.662
connecting with the right people,

417
00:15:06.762 --> 00:15:07.743
with the right leaders.

418
00:15:08.283 --> 00:15:08.523
For me,

419
00:15:08.883 --> 00:15:15.727
all the big connections have been associated for me with the right people that at some point you just look in the eyes and you say,

420
00:15:15.847 --> 00:15:15.967
OK,

421
00:15:16.207 --> 00:15:17.768
we go and that happens.

422
00:15:18.109 --> 00:15:18.309
Yes.

423
00:15:18.789 --> 00:15:19.469
But behind that,

424
00:15:19.489 --> 00:15:19.809
I think.

425
00:15:20.370 --> 00:15:20.990
And like I said,

426
00:15:21.010 --> 00:15:23.311
so there is this kind of a sort of master plan.

427
00:15:23.932 --> 00:15:24.172
Yes.

428
00:15:24.692 --> 00:15:26.013
There is this sort of master plan.

429
00:15:26.613 --> 00:15:27.674
And even if the option...

430
00:15:27.934 --> 00:15:31.236
the proposition is not exactly the same with the one that was anticipated.

431
00:15:31.556 --> 00:15:32.917
It's all about how close.

432
00:15:33.477 --> 00:15:34.138
And I think one,

433
00:15:34.738 --> 00:15:38.140
something I would really advise to consider is when looking at a job,

434
00:15:38.400 --> 00:15:42.522
how much does it create options versus how much does it close options?

435
00:15:43.063 --> 00:15:44.303
As long as it's hard to say no.

436
00:15:44.864 --> 00:15:45.064
Sorry?

437
00:15:45.304 --> 00:15:46.024
It's hard to say no.

438
00:15:46.565 --> 00:15:47.225
So something like,

439
00:15:47.245 --> 00:15:49.166
I'm just taking some very basic illustrations.

440
00:15:49.686 --> 00:15:53.649
Someone who has never done sales suddenly has the opportunity to do sales.

441
00:15:54.149 --> 00:15:56.050
That's a whole world of opportunities.

442
00:15:56.638 --> 00:15:58.419
someone who has never lived in their own country.

443
00:15:59.040 --> 00:16:01.001
Suddenly it's a whole world of opportunities.

444
00:16:01.401 --> 00:16:02.762
So that's the type of things that...

445
00:16:03.383 --> 00:16:03.663
Yes,

446
00:16:03.763 --> 00:16:04.824
but yes,

447
00:16:04.944 --> 00:16:05.124
okay,

448
00:16:05.125 --> 00:16:06.565
the second option can be a bit more,

449
00:16:06.625 --> 00:16:06.765
yes,

450
00:16:06.845 --> 00:16:07.286
challenging,

451
00:16:07.306 --> 00:16:07.686
as you say,

452
00:16:07.726 --> 00:16:09.247
sometimes because of the context.

453
00:16:09.767 --> 00:16:10.408
And okay,

454
00:16:10.488 --> 00:16:11.929
you feel more not comfortable,

455
00:16:11.989 --> 00:16:12.929
but you want to follow,

456
00:16:13.030 --> 00:16:13.390
I don't know,

457
00:16:13.410 --> 00:16:13.930
the family.

458
00:16:14.290 --> 00:16:14.430
Yeah,

459
00:16:14.491 --> 00:16:14.991
of course.

460
00:16:15.391 --> 00:16:17.312
Or you don't want to go to the place they asked you.

461
00:16:17.833 --> 00:16:19.714
And I think I genuinely go back to that.

462
00:16:20.255 --> 00:16:21.776
It's not one size fits all.

463
00:16:22.296 --> 00:16:22.516
Yes.

464
00:16:22.596 --> 00:16:23.097
I think it's,

465
00:16:23.577 --> 00:16:24.978
I think I have colleagues who tell me,

466
00:16:25.462 --> 00:16:27.083
There is only one job in life.

467
00:16:27.444 --> 00:16:28.565
It's managing director.

468
00:16:29.045 --> 00:16:31.887
I have others who tell me there is only one thing that matters.

469
00:16:31.927 --> 00:16:32.748
This is science.

470
00:16:33.148 --> 00:16:33.649
And it's okay.

471
00:16:34.169 --> 00:16:35.911
I think it's about self exploration as well.

472
00:16:36.431 --> 00:16:36.651
Okay.

473
00:16:37.232 --> 00:16:38.573
And then if we look at your leadership,

474
00:16:38.653 --> 00:16:41.075
how has it evolved following these experiences,

475
00:16:41.115 --> 00:16:41.415
perhaps?

476
00:16:41.896 --> 00:16:46.239
So it really does take a certain kind of generosity to be able to learn.

477
00:16:46.880 --> 00:16:47.140
Yes.

478
00:16:47.801 --> 00:16:50.443
And I'm going in a completely different direction.

479
00:16:50.963 --> 00:16:52.164
But it will address your point.

480
00:16:52.765 --> 00:16:54.206
I feel that one of the you

481
00:16:54.842 --> 00:16:57.504
risks or weaknesses I was kind of experiencing,

482
00:16:57.564 --> 00:16:59.104
particularly when I was in the US,

483
00:16:59.585 --> 00:17:05.508
was being completely in a kind of in my closed pharma environment outside of a European ecosystem.

484
00:17:06.048 --> 00:17:08.750
And I felt the need to reconnect with the outside world.

485
00:17:09.230 --> 00:17:11.291
And I think that in order to really get there,

486
00:17:11.911 --> 00:17:16.634
it honestly takes making the effort to pick up the phone and actually reach out to people,

487
00:17:16.734 --> 00:17:18.335
taking the time to go to them and say,

488
00:17:18.815 --> 00:17:18.955
hey,

489
00:17:18.956 --> 00:17:20.376
is there any way I can help you out?

490
00:17:21.116 --> 00:17:22.797
Maybe we could have a conversation about it.

491
00:17:23.137 --> 00:17:24.258
How can I be of help to you?

492
00:17:24.758 --> 00:17:29.202
And that's what led me to this fabulous experience with Resilience,

493
00:17:29.702 --> 00:17:30.923
meeting Jonathan Benamou.

494
00:17:31.644 --> 00:17:37.288
And because I believe that if one comes genuinely with this approach of,

495
00:17:38.049 --> 00:17:38.449
you know what,

496
00:17:38.629 --> 00:17:41.171
I'm not coming to you with the intent of ticking a box,

497
00:17:41.271 --> 00:17:41.912
but just to say,

498
00:17:42.412 --> 00:17:43.593
is there something I could share?

499
00:17:44.134 --> 00:17:45.735
Then there is always a ton in return,

500
00:17:46.015 --> 00:17:47.416
even if it's not expected.

501
00:17:47.917 --> 00:17:49.318
And I think in our current situation,

502
00:17:49.478 --> 00:17:50.239
it's the same thing.

503
00:17:50.859 --> 00:17:52.440
You're bringing me out of my comfort zone.

504
00:17:53.061 --> 00:17:54.362
So I think this is a stretch.

505
00:17:54.954 --> 00:17:56.155
This is a learning experience.

506
00:17:56.635 --> 00:17:58.857
And I bet that after this conversation,

507
00:17:59.158 --> 00:18:00.799
I will have conversations with many,

508
00:18:00.859 --> 00:18:01.019
many,

509
00:18:01.099 --> 00:18:08.205
many more people who at some point would be interested in the industry or would be interested in doing this or doing that.

510
00:18:08.665 --> 00:18:09.646
So I think that's the way.

511
00:18:10.167 --> 00:18:12.509
Let's try at times to be a bit less short term,

512
00:18:13.009 --> 00:18:19.915
a bit less transactional in what we do and believe in the fact that there is just some value in exchanging and opening conversations.

513
00:18:20.495 --> 00:18:21.016
It's yes,

514
00:18:21.096 --> 00:18:22.156
collective intelligence,

515
00:18:22.537 --> 00:18:23.317
giving it a chance.

516
00:18:23.798 --> 00:18:23.958
Okay.

517
00:18:24.118 --> 00:18:24.978
Very interesting indeed.

518
00:18:25.458 --> 00:18:26.559
I definitely understand.

519
00:18:27.059 --> 00:18:31.880
And since the first day I started the podcast to understand the value of sharing freely what you really think.

520
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:36.361
And what did you learn when you started your experience with this startup resilience?

521
00:18:36.821 --> 00:18:36.942
Yeah,

522
00:18:37.002 --> 00:18:37.662
I learned a ton.

523
00:18:38.202 --> 00:18:38.822
I learned a ton.

524
00:18:39.442 --> 00:18:40.182
So first of all,

525
00:18:40.382 --> 00:18:41.823
if we just talk for two seconds,

526
00:18:41.883 --> 00:18:43.983
because it's not about advertising,

527
00:18:44.384 --> 00:18:45.124
but what they do,

528
00:18:45.484 --> 00:18:46.964
this notion of digital health,

529
00:18:47.524 --> 00:18:49.625
where you can help digital health,

530
00:18:50.145 --> 00:18:51.065
supporting the patients,

531
00:18:51.425 --> 00:18:52.986
it's obvious that this is the way to go.

532
00:18:53.686 --> 00:18:56.327
when I think being part of this journey is really something,

533
00:18:56.767 --> 00:18:58.267
and I'm very excited about what they do.

534
00:18:58.908 --> 00:18:59.228
But then,

535
00:18:59.608 --> 00:19:02.769
to your point about comfort zone and these kind of things,

536
00:19:03.309 --> 00:19:08.270
what the pharma industry has done amazingly well is the ability to process complicated things,

537
00:19:08.370 --> 00:19:09.571
to set the guardrails,

538
00:19:10.071 --> 00:19:12.091
and to set a clear roadmap for progression.

539
00:19:12.612 --> 00:19:12.972
However,

540
00:19:13.352 --> 00:19:16.453
when I meet with some terrific leaders like Jonathan Benamou,

541
00:19:16.833 --> 00:19:17.553
who is the

542
00:19:17.913 --> 00:19:18.493
CEO,

543
00:19:19.113 --> 00:19:20.394
Sometimes we tend to lose.

544
00:19:20.958 --> 00:19:23.640
This instinctive approach to opportunities and to things,

545
00:19:24.201 --> 00:19:25.862
this idea of I don't think about it,

546
00:19:25.863 --> 00:19:26.282
I do it.

547
00:19:26.823 --> 00:19:28.864
And I will take a very concrete example.

548
00:19:29.525 --> 00:19:31.346
When someone reaches out from the outside,

549
00:19:31.787 --> 00:19:32.948
it's very tempting to say,

550
00:19:33.488 --> 00:19:33.608
OK,

551
00:19:33.748 --> 00:19:36.831
let me connect my admin and we're going to speak in two weeks from now.

552
00:19:37.351 --> 00:19:39.213
I think when you speak with someone like Jonathan,

553
00:19:39.333 --> 00:19:40.754
it's can we speak tonight?

554
00:19:41.214 --> 00:19:42.355
And I think this idea of,

555
00:19:42.956 --> 00:19:43.076
OK,

556
00:19:43.276 --> 00:19:44.137
I pick up my phone,

557
00:19:44.297 --> 00:19:47.039
we solve the problem in five minutes and we move to something else.

558
00:19:47.500 --> 00:19:49.041
This is something that is refreshing,

559
00:19:49.081 --> 00:19:50.362
that keeps you on your toes.

560
00:19:50.870 --> 00:19:54.335
And I think that everyone should have this type of opportunity of saying,

561
00:19:54.756 --> 00:19:54.996
okay,

562
00:19:55.597 --> 00:19:56.238
in two weeks,

563
00:19:56.298 --> 00:19:59.022
let's keep the pace to get it wrong 10 times.

564
00:19:59.552 --> 00:19:59.932
Exactly.

565
00:20:00.313 --> 00:20:04.295
And I think there is probably something more rough in this environment with the funds,

566
00:20:04.335 --> 00:20:05.036
the investors,

567
00:20:05.296 --> 00:20:05.536
same,

568
00:20:05.977 --> 00:20:08.999
that we are not always confronted with when we're in bigger companies.

569
00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:09.479
So

570
00:20:09.939 --> 00:20:11.340
I think I see a ton of benefits.

571
00:20:11.961 --> 00:20:13.202
And I think in both ways,

572
00:20:13.382 --> 00:20:13.802
by the way,

573
00:20:13.962 --> 00:20:17.605
because I think the bigger organizations have an ability to clarify,

574
00:20:17.685 --> 00:20:21.367
to prioritize that sometimes the smaller companies don't have.

575
00:20:21.688 --> 00:20:22.828
So there is a win-win.

576
00:20:23.169 --> 00:20:24.389
And I think it goes back to this,

577
00:20:24.970 --> 00:20:25.630
to your point,

578
00:20:25.690 --> 00:20:25.971
which is,

579
00:20:26.391 --> 00:20:26.611
okay,

580
00:20:26.691 --> 00:20:27.892
let's create the conditions.

581
00:20:28.520 --> 00:20:30.541
for positive connections and learn from each other.

582
00:20:31.021 --> 00:20:31.241
Yes,

583
00:20:31.361 --> 00:20:31.582
yes,

584
00:20:31.661 --> 00:20:32.882
because what you say is,

585
00:20:33.002 --> 00:20:33.242
okay,

586
00:20:33.262 --> 00:20:34.623
you go out of your comfort zone,

587
00:20:34.723 --> 00:20:36.103
but you also need some humility,

588
00:20:36.203 --> 00:20:40.225
respect on both sides to really understand what you're not good at.

589
00:20:40.505 --> 00:20:40.885
Exactly,

590
00:20:40.986 --> 00:20:41.326
you're right.

591
00:20:41.446 --> 00:20:43.106
It takes intelligence from both sides.

592
00:20:43.267 --> 00:20:43.867
It's important.

593
00:20:44.167 --> 00:20:44.287
Yeah,

594
00:20:44.347 --> 00:20:45.668
to get the best of each other.

595
00:20:46.188 --> 00:20:46.368
Okay,

596
00:20:46.468 --> 00:20:50.490
I would like to have one word maybe because I have one way maybe to define you.

597
00:20:50.810 --> 00:20:52.231
You have maybe a brutal honesty,

598
00:20:52.311 --> 00:20:53.351
but you respect others.

599
00:20:53.871 --> 00:20:54.492
And is it true?

600
00:20:54.792 --> 00:20:55.412
Is it something?

601
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:56.320
So yeah,

602
00:20:56.360 --> 00:20:58.202
so this notion of being brutally honest,

603
00:20:58.642 --> 00:20:59.703
I've been using as words,

604
00:20:59.743 --> 00:21:00.464
but I prefer...

605
00:21:00.964 --> 00:21:02.025
We go back to the risks.

606
00:21:02.526 --> 00:21:02.646
No,

607
00:21:02.706 --> 00:21:04.307
if I go in the direction of risk,

608
00:21:04.527 --> 00:21:06.329
I prefer the notion of being bold.

609
00:21:06.889 --> 00:21:07.650
Bold is exciting.

610
00:21:08.130 --> 00:21:09.972
Then I prefer being bold than risk,

611
00:21:10.372 --> 00:21:11.153
risk of failure,

612
00:21:11.373 --> 00:21:11.674
whatever.

613
00:21:12.254 --> 00:21:13.215
So definitely,

614
00:21:13.395 --> 00:21:14.356
I think that's the first one.

615
00:21:14.816 --> 00:21:17.398
And I prefer the notion of clarity to brutal honesty.

616
00:21:17.979 --> 00:21:21.042
And this is probably something that is being shaped over time with experience.

617
00:21:21.582 --> 00:21:23.764
When one has probably less confidence...

618
00:21:24.088 --> 00:21:26.009
There is a tendency to mix the two,

619
00:21:26.470 --> 00:21:28.211
that you have to be tough to be strong.

620
00:21:28.751 --> 00:21:29.492
I don't believe in it.

621
00:21:29.912 --> 00:21:32.215
I think I'm distancing myself a little bit from that.

622
00:21:32.735 --> 00:21:33.635
Being clear is helpful.

623
00:21:34.335 --> 00:21:34.495
Yeah,

624
00:21:34.655 --> 00:21:35.056
and bold.

625
00:21:35.417 --> 00:21:35.856
It's also,

626
00:21:36.016 --> 00:21:36.197
yes,

627
00:21:36.216 --> 00:21:38.318
a way to use the right words to help and also,

628
00:21:38.438 --> 00:21:38.659
yes,

629
00:21:39.159 --> 00:21:40.199
to treat our audience,

630
00:21:40.279 --> 00:21:40.459
yes,

631
00:21:40.539 --> 00:21:41.140
with respect.

632
00:21:41.520 --> 00:21:41.640
No,

633
00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:42.861
because when you're brutal,

634
00:21:43.241 --> 00:21:44.242
you attack the person.

635
00:21:44.602 --> 00:21:45.244
When you're clear,

636
00:21:45.764 --> 00:21:46.844
you're focused on the task.

637
00:21:46.924 --> 00:21:49.386
That's the simple distinction I would make.

638
00:21:49.707 --> 00:21:51.267
Do you want to share your personal values?

639
00:21:51.567 --> 00:21:51.767
Wow.

640
00:21:52.349 --> 00:21:52.568
Some.

641
00:21:53.144 --> 00:21:54.245
Some personal values,

642
00:21:54.545 --> 00:21:55.105
curiosity,

643
00:21:55.326 --> 00:21:55.806
big time,

644
00:21:56.286 --> 00:21:56.867
generosity,

645
00:21:57.367 --> 00:21:58.928
and a certain will to do good,

646
00:21:59.348 --> 00:22:00.669
to have a positive impact,

647
00:22:00.829 --> 00:22:01.270
definitely.

648
00:22:01.850 --> 00:22:02.050
Cool.

649
00:22:02.671 --> 00:22:02.951
Thank you,

650
00:22:02.971 --> 00:22:03.171
Mark.

651
00:22:03.571 --> 00:22:03.872
Thank you.

652
00:22:04.252 --> 00:22:04.552
Thank you,

653
00:22:04.572 --> 00:22:04.972
Natalie.

654
00:22:05.593 --> 00:22:05.893
Thank you.

655
00:22:06.353 --> 00:22:06.673
It was,

656
00:22:06.774 --> 00:22:07.014
for me,

657
00:22:07.134 --> 00:22:09.535
very interesting and intense to hear your perspective.

658
00:22:10.056 --> 00:22:12.658
And I think a bold way to define a farmer leader.

659
00:22:13.198 --> 00:22:13.318
Yeah,

660
00:22:13.378 --> 00:22:13.858
my pleasure.

661
00:22:14.139 --> 00:22:14.779
Thank you very much,

662
00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:15.159
Natalie.

663
00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:16.861
Thanks again for what you're doing.

664
00:22:17.061 --> 00:22:18.782
And I'm happy to keep supporting the journey.

665
00:22:19.182 --> 00:22:21.524
The most important thing Mark says is perhaps this.

666
00:22:21.904 --> 00:22:24.827
executing in the midst of instability isn't a matter of courage.

667
00:22:24.987 --> 00:22:26.028
It's a matter of clarity.

668
00:22:27.149 --> 00:22:28.950
Knowing exactly what we want to achieve,

669
00:22:30.031 --> 00:22:32.693
trusting the local teams to find the right way forward,

670
00:22:33.754 --> 00:22:35.936
and accepting that these departures,

671
00:22:35.956 --> 00:22:36.977
these various changes,

672
00:22:37.918 --> 00:22:40.320
are necessary and an integral part of the job.

673
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:42.061
In the next episode,

674
00:22:42.101 --> 00:22:43.683
we'll stay in the reality of the field,

675
00:22:43.763 --> 00:22:45.324
but we go down yet another notch.

676
00:22:45.704 --> 00:22:47.606
We're no longer talking about zones,

677
00:22:47.686 --> 00:22:48.026
fields,

678
00:22:48.086 --> 00:22:48.707
subsidiaries,

679
00:22:48.767 --> 00:22:49.948
or geographical areas.

680
00:22:50.248 --> 00:22:51.729
We're entering the world of biotech.

681
00:22:52.269 --> 00:22:58.111
We're executing his first and foremost being able to survive long enough to prove that we were right all along.

682
00:22:59.031 --> 00:23:03.133
And I wanted to tell you about a discussion between Paul Bravetti and Marc de Garidel,

683
00:23:03.353 --> 00:23:05.474
which shows us what that means in practice,

684
00:23:06.134 --> 00:23:08.015
making choices and standing by them.